It is the super rich that filled their pockets from the world's debt. From the looks of things there is a form or lack of social conscious that is lacking. Allan Matrix ** th3 beginning light On Nov 13, 2012 8:50 PM, "archytas" <[email protected]> wrote:
> There is hardly anything more important to thriving functioning > capitalism than productivity, and sharing the fruits of productivity. > It is notable that productivity among U.S. workers actually > skyrocketed over the last decade and a half, but real wages have > flattened or declined. > Where did the surpluses go? To parasitic financializers who have seen > their share over all corporate profits grow from 10% to over 45% in > recent decades. > After costing trillions and wiping out the world economy, what asset, > good, or service do big banks produce that has genuine public worth? > > • “Expert advice”, in which brokers intentionally sell junk to > consumers, as shown in investment bank emails? > • “Financial services”, which turn out to be so laden with hidden fees > and loosened/fabricated credit qualifications that the lendee is worse > off? > • Allegiances that concentrate financial wealth the top 0.1% of the > population, causing the vast majority of the world to get poorer? > > If anything, citizens would stand to gain more by paying big banks to > close their doors. > > Big banks have largely stopped lending to businesses or individuals > because that’s not profitable enough and because they need to retain > capital to reduce their exposure due to their own foolish > overleveraging. This depresses community and small business > entrepreneurship and productivity. > > Bottom line: Big banks’ “services” take far more in costs than they > provide in benefits. Much would be gained, and little lost, if they > were allowed to fail or were decommissioned outright for their > criminal behavior. > > The bail outs could have been given to individuals and families > instead of the banks - we would probably have been looking at $120,000 > a family. > > It's not the roar of the crowd rigsy - we might call that socially > approved epistemic authority. It's about forming decent culture and > that we are less individual than we are made to think. Ask people if > they have a figure on what the TARP and the rest have cost each one of > us - you'll generally come up dry. If people struggle even with > basics like this what chance complex schemes of internal training? > > On 13 Nov, 19:28, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: > > The US has lots of problems it does not want to admit to.. There is one > > extremely dangerous quake off the northwest coast .. that will happen > > more sooner than later. > > Allan > > > > Matrix ** th3 beginning light > > On Nov 13, 2012 1:59 PM, "rigsy03" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You seem to see morality as a group thing rather than an individual > > > struggle between good and evil- which is a religious/spiritual matter. > > > As for individualism, it is a necessary tension against "the roar of > > > the crowd". There are too many examples to list. > > > > > On Nov 12, 9:49 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Even one person one vote isn't it on its own. Majorities are > > > > manipulable and often wrong. If you look at an issue like abortion - > > > > which I think should be available and also avoided by better sexual > > > > practice - there might be a majority against for all sorts of > > > > superstitious reasons. The US relies on Roe v Wade rather than > > > > statute. For all the romanticism of Irish republicanism, they leave > a > > > > young, raped girl to 'her fate'. I believe there comes a time when > we > > > > should have help to slip from the mortal coil but one can immediately > > > > see problems. Molly talks of embracing pardoxes - but much of the > > > > difficulty concerns cultural ideologies based in the manipulation of > > > > ignorance. Any half-wit should be able to grasp that the treatment > of > > > > wages as a cost to be hammered down is inconsistent with a developed > > > > economy and genuinely available opportunity for most. Yet our > > > > politics treats the dominant ideology of a race to the bottom on > wages > > > > as as taken as read as any Soviet claptrap. Worker unions are to be > > > > detested, yet managers, owners and professionals are more unionised > > > > than any set of mine workers in history. > > > > > > Science more or less accepts we are good and evil and that the unit > > > > that promotes good behaviour is the social. Virtue ethics arise in > > > > writing within an unchallenged slave economy - I don't want to be > > > > 'pure' and live off the backs of others (though inevitably as I grow > > > > creaky I do). I'm sick of phrases like 'flexible employment' that > > > > mean a return of 'you, you and not you' casual labour and managerial > > > > abuse in a unitary framework of the employment relationship. > > > > Disgusted would be a more accurate term - much morality comes with > > > > that feeling (scientifically). > > > > > > The story of what is happening in America and the imposition of > > > > 'individualist' ideology (a bad joke when one looks at the lack of it > > > > in American Football) has been long told. When are we individual and > > > > when are we selfish prats? You look very individual when you step > the > > > > big forward, stiff the sweeper, dummy the fullback and dive over the > > > > line. Try doing that without the guy who gave the precision pass, > the > > > > guys running interference and all the attrition that knackered the > big > > > > forward giving you the edge. > > > > > > My grandson has just had a small knee operation free at point of > > > > delivery. The hospital had a room with Xbox (all donated). We get > > > > some stuff right. Must go to collect him. > > > > > > On 12 Nov, 09:20, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > I think it is it should be one person one vote,, and the corporate > > > > > wallet closed completely and with a maximum amount that can be > > > > > donated (nation wide ) with no exception,, > > > > > > > effectively the excessively rich and companies and the companies.. > > > > > The super pacs need to be forced to revel all donors and the amount > > > > > they donated.. and that is a minimum these organizations should be > > > > > totally removed. the Pacs as a republican invention and they need > to > > > > > be brought into control. > > > > > > > the US has created a political money quagmire.. > > > > > Allan > > > > > > > On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 4:48 AM, rigsy03 <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > It's back to humane values and sensible choices, perhaps. We > don't > > > > > > have to buy into the cultural or commercial hoopla. I will think > more > > > > > > about this. > > > > > > > > On Nov 11, 2:45 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > >> You are right rigsy - but we have to get somewhere beyond. > What is > > > it > > > > > >> in our arguments, sentiments and the rest that hold us back? > And > > > may > > > > > >> be very wrong? > > > > > > > >> Allan is right we could vote better with our wallets. We > could, for > > > > > >> instance, all bank with mutuals and have more local economies > > > > > >> (Andrew). Problems are as Andrew says when the wallet is empty > and > > > > > >> also that we already have 'one dollar one vote'. > > > > > > > >> I doubt the academic-legal-commercial argument as argument at > all. > > > We > > > > > >> have a paedophile scandal in the UK - but even the media > reporting > > > it > > > > > >> has forgotten it reported such a generation ago (the key > > > documentaries > > > > > >> were called 'Cathy Come Home'.and 'Johnny Go Home') and misses > the > > > > > >> point that they key point is what evidence we can believe when > false > > > > > >> accusations are so easy to make and make life very difficult for > > > real > > > > > >> victims. Our public inquiry systems are proving increasingly > > > > > >> untrustworthy. When one teaches critical reasoning it quickly > > > becomes > > > > > >> clear most people are no good at it. I'm quite sure our > mainstream > > > > > >> media has almost no clue and that many lawyers, judges and > > > politicians > > > > > >> would fail standard tests. But surely the route here cannot be > to > > > > > >> elite groups of philosopher kings - but should be towards > properly > > > > > >> available facts - leaving us with problems about who controls > that > > > > > >> production. 'The rich', whoever they are, already do this. > > > > > > > >> On 11 Nov, 11:33, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > >> > Matriarchies are what started the problems and from history > they > > > tend > > > > > >> > to love war.. > > > > > >> > they are not a solution.. > > > > > >> > Allan > > > > > > > >> > On Sun, Nov 11, 2012 at 10:49 AM, rigsy03 <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > >> > > I think that matriarchies are back in style- in all races > and > > > nations- > > > > > >> > > and think it will be just as suffocating as the patriarchy. > > > > > > > >> > > On Nov 11, 1:39 am, andrew vecsey <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > >> > >> Voting with your wallet could be an effective way to change > > > things and put > > > > > >> > >> the wealthy exploiters out of business. Buying cheap > products > > > is more > > > > > >> > >> expensive in the long term anyways. Buying food from local > > > markets is also > > > > > >> > >> healthier. As long as we all play the game, the game will > keep > > > playing > > > > > >> > >> until every business becomes a monopoly and globalization > will > > > take over > > > > > >> > >> our wallets. Once our wallets are gone, we are really > screwed > > > and will have > > > > > >> > >> no other choice than to play robin hood. So much for free > > > markets. > > > > > > > >> > >> On Sunday, November 11, 2012 12:41:52 AM UTC+1, archytas > wrote: > > > > > > > >> > >> > We lack simple explanation that isn't crass Allan. I > have > > > little > > > > > >> > >> > doubt the rich have stolen the wealth they have and it > > > should be taken > > > > > >> > >> > from them - but how do we do this without it ending up > with > > > big > > > > > >> > >> > government that doesn't work any better? I think we are > > > tranced by a > > > > > >> > >> > work ethic that really makes no sense. We need facts on > > > just how much > > > > > >> > >> > work needs to be done and how we might organise that. > > > Simples! Yet > > > > > >> > >> > no answer because we don't understand the 'trancing'. > > > > > > > >> > >> > On 10 Nov, 07:15, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > >> > >> > > From what I see is the answer lies in manufacturing. > And > > > crazy things > > > > > >> > >> > like > > > > > >> > >> > > 50% less sales tax on products that are produced in the > > > country origin, > > > > > >> > >> > > that includes good thru all industrial products. > > > > > > > >> > >> > > Better tax collection on all international corporations > > > and stock or > > > > > >> > >> > money > > > > > >> > >> > > sent out of the country. > > > > > > > >> > >> > > In the US all corporation papers say they agree to > abide > > > by all the laws > > > > > >> > >> > > and if they don't they lose all corporate rights and > > > privileges. This > > > > > >> > >> > > needs to be enforced and you will see major changes in > > > business. You > > > > > >> > >> > have > > > > > >> > >> > > to remember tax evasion is against the law. > > > > > >> > >> > > Allan > > > > > > > >> > >> > > Air gunner full of hot air ready to release it quickly > > > > > >> > >> > > On Nov 10, 2012 2:04 AM, "archytas" <[email protected] > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > The weird thing is that we are being told all sorts > of > > > stuff can't be > > > > > >> > >> > > > 'afforded' - yet productivity is up by factors of ten > > > since we did > > > > > >> > >> > > > decent things like national health services - we > should > > > be able to > > > > > >> > >> > > > afford loads more. In the UK we were told the answer > > > was US > > > > > >> > >> > > > management, then Japanese - German stuff had too much > > > industrial > > > > > >> > >> > > > democracy for our business ethos. Even the IMF has > > > realised austerity > > > > > >> > >> > > > is a crock. We're in the grips of something else. > Debt > > > is the > > > > > >> > >> > > > obvious answer -but we have to address our attitudes > > > towards it. Its > > > > > >> > >> > > > owned by robber barons and all link between work and > > > reward has really > > > > > >> > >> > > > gone. > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > On 9 Nov, 21:59, Allan H <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > >> > >> > > > > I totally agree with you management is based on > > > rot..but from what I > > > > > >> > >> > > > > have been reading it is the same problem from eons > > > ago,, unchanged > > > > > >> > >> > > > > what does it take to get management that is > interested > > > in the > > > > ... > > > > read more » > > -- > > > > --
