It's back to humane values and sensible choices, perhaps. We don't have to buy into the cultural or commercial hoopla. I will think more about this.
On Nov 11, 2:45 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > You are right rigsy - but we have to get somewhere beyond. What is it > in our arguments, sentiments and the rest that hold us back? And may > be very wrong? > > Allan is right we could vote better with our wallets. We could, for > instance, all bank with mutuals and have more local economies > (Andrew). Problems are as Andrew says when the wallet is empty and > also that we already have 'one dollar one vote'. > > I doubt the academic-legal-commercial argument as argument at all. We > have a paedophile scandal in the UK - but even the media reporting it > has forgotten it reported such a generation ago (the key documentaries > were called 'Cathy Come Home'.and 'Johnny Go Home') and misses the > point that they key point is what evidence we can believe when false > accusations are so easy to make and make life very difficult for real > victims. Our public inquiry systems are proving increasingly > untrustworthy. When one teaches critical reasoning it quickly becomes > clear most people are no good at it. I'm quite sure our mainstream > media has almost no clue and that many lawyers, judges and politicians > would fail standard tests. But surely the route here cannot be to > elite groups of philosopher kings - but should be towards properly > available facts - leaving us with problems about who controls that > production. 'The rich', whoever they are, already do this. > > On 11 Nov, 11:33, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Matriarchies are what started the problems and from history they tend > > to love war.. > > they are not a solution.. > > Allan > > > On Sun, Nov 11, 2012 at 10:49 AM, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > I think that matriarchies are back in style- in all races and nations- > > > and think it will be just as suffocating as the patriarchy. > > > > On Nov 11, 1:39 am, andrew vecsey <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> Voting with your wallet could be an effective way to change things and > > >> put > > >> the wealthy exploiters out of business. Buying cheap products is more > > >> expensive in the long term anyways. Buying food from local markets is > > >> also > > >> healthier. As long as we all play the game, the game will keep playing > > >> until every business becomes a monopoly and globalization will take over > > >> our wallets. Once our wallets are gone, we are really screwed and will > > >> have > > >> no other choice than to play robin hood. So much for free markets. > > > >> On Sunday, November 11, 2012 12:41:52 AM UTC+1, archytas wrote: > > > >> > We lack simple explanation that isn't crass Allan. I have little > > >> > doubt the rich have stolen the wealth they have and it should be taken > > >> > from them - but how do we do this without it ending up with big > > >> > government that doesn't work any better? I think we are tranced by a > > >> > work ethic that really makes no sense. We need facts on just how much > > >> > work needs to be done and how we might organise that. Simples! Yet > > >> > no answer because we don't understand the 'trancing'. > > > >> > On 10 Nov, 07:15, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > > From what I see is the answer lies in manufacturing. And crazy things > > >> > like > > >> > > 50% less sales tax on products that are produced in the country > > >> > > origin, > > >> > > that includes good thru all industrial products. > > > >> > > Better tax collection on all international corporations and stock or > > >> > money > > >> > > sent out of the country. > > > >> > > In the US all corporation papers say they agree to abide by all the > > >> > > laws > > >> > > and if they don't they lose all corporate rights and privileges. > > >> > > This > > >> > > needs to be enforced and you will see major changes in business. You > > >> > have > > >> > > to remember tax evasion is against the law. > > >> > > Allan > > > >> > > Air gunner full of hot air ready to release it quickly > > >> > > On Nov 10, 2012 2:04 AM, "archytas" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> > > > The weird thing is that we are being told all sorts of stuff can't > > >> > > > be > > >> > > > 'afforded' - yet productivity is up by factors of ten since we did > > >> > > > decent things like national health services - we should be able to > > >> > > > afford loads more. In the UK we were told the answer was US > > >> > > > management, then Japanese - German stuff had too much industrial > > >> > > > democracy for our business ethos. Even the IMF has realised > > >> > > > austerity > > >> > > > is a crock. We're in the grips of something else. Debt is the > > >> > > > obvious answer -but we have to address our attitudes towards it. > > >> > > > Its > > >> > > > owned by robber barons and all link between work and reward has > > >> > > > really > > >> > > > gone. > > > >> > > > On 9 Nov, 21:59, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > > > > I totally agree with you management is based on rot..but from > > >> > > > > what I > > >> > > > > have been reading it is the same problem from eons ago,, > > >> > > > > unchanged > > >> > > > > what does it take to get management that is interested in the > > >> > > > > betterment of society .. the ideas sit with in beliefs which > > >> > > > > puts > > >> > > > > part of the burdens on religions ,, then the problems comes how > > >> > > > > does > > >> > > > > one get beliefs to work for the betterment of mankind in this > > >> > > > > world. > > >> > > > > Allan > > > >> > > > > On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 9:45 PM, archytas <[email protected]> > > >> > > > > wrote: > > >> > > > > > Get your head back on Al - I know about the Japanese war > > >> > > > > > crimes. > > >> > The > > >> > > > > > book I was referring to was written by a Japanese clown. The > > >> > point is > > >> > > > > > that management miracles are based on rot.. > > > >> > > > > > On 9 Nov, 19:07, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > > > > >> Neil I had two uncles in ww II One in the European theater the > > >> > other > > >> > > > > >> was in pacific theater and was captured even before the war > > >> > started in > > >> > > > > >> my memory is right he survived 2 death ship and four death > > >> > marches > > >> > > > > >> that is talking five years of imprisonment into account loss > > >> > > > > >> of > > >> > close > > >> > > > > >> to 70 kilos.. you need to get your facts straight as to > > >> > strategies of > > >> > > > > >> both wars.. and if Germany was acting like J ,, Berlin would > > >> > have > > >> > > > > >> been Nuclear ashes also.. > > > >> > > > > >> Yes the US has serious fiscal problems.. thanks to some > > >> > > > > >> irresponsible politicians starting with the Reagan > > >> > administration .. > > >> > > > > >> hopefully they will get something done . and stop sticking > > >> > > > > >> one > > >> > thumb > > >> > > > > >> in their mouth and the other in their ass then rotating. > > > >> > > > > >> As for what happens iihope for the best but in reality we > > >> > > > > >> will > > >> > > > see.. > > >> > > > > >> Allan > > > >> > > > > >> On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 6:23 PM, archytas <[email protected]> > > >> > wrote: > > > >> > > >http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/us-debt-problems-threaten-t... > > > >> > > > > >> > The Germans are considering the USA as a potential Greece. > > > >> > > > > >> > I'm remembering attitudes towards Japan in the 1980s. There > > >> > was a > > >> > > > > >> > dreadful book called 'The Japan That Can Say No' which > > >> > summaries > > >> > > > thus: > > > >> > > > > >> > + Japan must use its technological superiority as a > > >> > > > > >> > negotiating > > >> > > > > >> > weapon, and it should > > >> > > > > >> > even threaten to trade secrets with the Soviet Union as a > > >> > bargaining > > >> > > > > >> > tool against the US and refuse to sell components that go > > >> > > > > >> > into > > >> > US > > >> > > > > >> > missiles. > > >> > > > > >> > + The quality of American goods is low because the level of > > >> > > > > >> > the > > >> > > > > >> > workers is low, while the superior education of Japanese > > >> > workers is > > >> > > > a > > >> > > > > >> > big advantage. > > >> > > > > >> > + The Japanese character is innately superior to the > > >> > > > > >> > character > > >> > of > > >> > > > > >> > Americans. > > >> > > > > >> > + Americans believe that the Caucasian race is superior > > >> > > > > >> > since > > >> > the > > >> > > > > >> > modern era is dominated by the western world, and this > > >> > prejudice > > >> > > > will > > >> > > > > >> > hurt them in the end. > > >> > > > > >> > + Former American colonies are rife with problems, while > > >> > > > > >> > former > > >> > > > > >> > Japanese colonies are thriving. > > > >> > > > > >> > + America's dropping of the atomic bomb on Japan and not > > >> > Germany in > > >> > > > > >> > World War II arose from racism because Germans are white > > >> > > > > >> > people > > >> > and > > >> > > > > >> > Japanese are not. (Though at the time of the German defeat > > >> > > > > >> > in > > >> > April > > >> > > > > >> > 1945, the atomic bomb was as yet incomplete and untested > > >> > > > > >> > until > > >> > July > > >> > > > > >> > 16, 1945, so that may have been a factor) > > >> > > > > >> > + The trade surplus with the U.S. is caused by the lack of > > >> > desirable > > >> > > > > >> > products made in the U.S. > > > >> > > > > >> > I read it on a plane out there on a journey to discover > > >> > > > > >> > their > > >> > > > > >> > shipbuilding secrets. I met a lovely bloke out there who > > >> > > > > >> > told > > >> > me > > >> > > > the > > >> > > > > >> > idea of copying Japanese management secrets filled him with > > >> > dread. > > >> > > > > >> > The only secret was they were rotten, sexist and callous. > > >> > Japan > > >> > > > fell > > >> > > > > >> > off its fiscal cliff when I left (1980s). Almost sadly, > > >> > > > > >> > this > > >> > wasn't > > >> > > > > >> > because of anything I left behind. The 'brilliant' Japanese > > >> > > > > >> > management techniques were taught by lazy lecturers for the > > >> > next 20 > > >> > > > > >> > years. > > > >> > > > > >> > The coming fiscal cliff in the US isn't like Greece in that > > >> > > > > >> > USD > > >> > can > > >> > > > be > > >> > > > > >> > printed at will. Der Spiegel says this: > > > >> > > > > >> > The US has more in common with heavily indebted southern > > >> > European > > >> > > > > >> > countries than it might like to admit. And if the country > > >> > doesn't > > >> > > > > >> > reach agreement on deficit > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --
