We don't see to have much clue when it comes to bigger pictures Allan. On 25 Nov, 09:31, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: > maybe humans have this same basic hardwired instinct as the bees for > looking out the hive of humanity only the age of reason and > selfishness has over ridden it in most cases.. > interesting comparison: > Allan > > > > > > > > On Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 11:15 PM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > We have now uncovered a rich repertoire of behaviours under the hive > > lid. Studies of the choreography of the waggle dance, for instance, > > have revealed that a worker will interrupt another's jive with a butt > > to the head if it has found danger - a spider, say - at the location > > (Current Biology, vol 20, p 310). Bees also display an extraordinary > > range of housekeeping chores, including spring cleaning, mutual > > grooming and a form of surveillance in which "bouncers" guard > > entrances against intruders. The hive has even evolved its own air > > conditioning; when temperatures soar, the workers sprinkle water over > > the honeycomb and beat their wings to produce a cooling draft. In > > total we have now recorded around 60 separate behaviours for worker > > honeybees, including six different kinds of dance (Current Biology, > > vol 19, p R995). These achievements seem to overshadow the abilities > > of many mammals. Rabbits are thought to show about 30 distinct > > behaviours, and the beaver has about 50 in its busy life felling > > trees, building damns and storing food. Even the bottlenose dolphin's > > 120 or so routines are only about twice the number a worker honeybee > > manages. > > > Despite this bulging portfolio of behaviours, many zoologists have > > remained sceptical about apian intelligence, believing they were > > seeing hard-wired instinct rather than flexible thought. "The brain of > > a bee is the size of a grass seed and is not made for thinking," said > > von Frisch in 1962. However, that view is now changing, as Chittka and > > others discover a surprising mental agility behind the bee's bumbling > > exterior. Chittka's first revelation came while he was investigating > > the way honeybees navigate to a flower patch. Varying the number of > > 3.5-metre-tall tents between a hive and a feeder - "It looked more > > like an art installation than an experiment" - he found that foragers > > seemed to count landmarks rather than using the overall distance when > > working out where to land. Subsequent research has confirmed this > > numeracy, showing that bees can match the quantity shown in simple > > pictures of shapes to find a reward. In one trial they were shown > > three leaves and then had to choose between two and three lemons, for > > instance - a test they passed with ease. The ability to match signs > > using different symbols is crucial, showing that the bees did not just > > rely on a memory of a specific image but understood the underlying > > number. But this ability is limited: bees can only count to four. > > > There seems an endless supply of uninteresting people rigsy - I am not > > sure mice are so discriminating! Old cops would appear a couple of > > yeas into retirement looking much younger and ask when our (job) > > sentences were coming to an end. My scientist colleagues nearly all > > resent not being into enquiry. The experiments with mice involve > > dicing brains - there are physical changes due to isolation in tissues > > surrounding neurons. > > > On 23 Nov, 13:38, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Wolfram Alpha - now there's an example of something not doing what it > >> said on the tin at the launch! I shall go back. > > >> They've found a wasp described as having a 'clock work brain'. Seen > >> most of your finds James - which only shows our interests overlap. > >> Your take on Deutsch hadn't occurred to me and set my mind spinning. > >> I'm after a holy grail - something that would be a framework for > >> rational discussion. Took a sleeping tablet last night because I > >> couldn't switch off - a problem my laptop is having since W8! It now > >> boots as rapidly as my first PC from a 5 inch floppy. > > >> Will get t your links and then walk dog (tail wag as I write this!) to > >> let news spin. > > >> On 23 Nov, 04:48, James <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > Here's a neat reference to brain development in a tiny wasp which > >> > undergoes major neural expansion when it leaves the nest, dendrites to > >> > the tune of seven to eight mm long in a brain the size of two grains of > >> > sand. > > >> > Tiny But Adaptable Wasp Brains Show Ability To Alter Their Architecture > >> > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091014144738.htm > > >> > An offshoot for a member here, my father in law mentioned working in > >> > audio biofeedback training \brain wave states with a woman 40 years ago > >> > with successful results using EEG equipment. The tech may be available > >> > in nano-sensor array headsets today (a gaming rig/platform). > > >> > I'm out of steam tonight, reading about exocortex theories, the memex > >> > and ended up at this fascinating timeline at wolfram alpha! > > >> >http://www.wolframalpha.com/docs/timeline/computable-knowledge-histor... > > >> > Be well, happy turkey day, thanks gabby! :) > > >> > ps. These are pretty neat too, apparently I became fascinated by wasp > >> > neurology a couple months ago. > > >> > Alien Wasps Abduct, Drop Ants to Get > >> > Food:http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/04/110406-aliens-wasps-a... > > >> > Wasps Can Recognize Faces - Social species relies on recognition to keep > >> > the peace, study > >> > suggests.http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/11/111202-wasps-people-f... > > >> > On 11/20/2012 3:49 PM, archytas wrote: > > >> > > I would certainly sign up for the brain-machine interface and a bit > >> > > of splicing with a prawn to see in 16 colours (preferably with an > >> > > alien who sees the dark). One possibility is that we don't know how > >> > > to use our brains much - capacity is massive potentially. I rather > >> > > like the idea that biological intelligence is short-lived and other > >> > > civilisations have passed through it. Stuff like Skydrive (which > >> > > sadly are attempts to rent software to us at high prices) could be > >> > > conceived as a thought-cloud in which individuality as we think of it > >> > > becomes as redundant as the PC once netware works. We may see a > >> > > network in which all skills are embodied and means of production > >> > > available to all. In some parts of science we are thinking the > >> > > machines are up to a lot we don't understand already. > >> > > More in my own field - we are finding brain changes associated with > >> > > social isolation. In mice these changes leave the mice uninterested > >> > > in new mice (the opposite of normal). The brain is much more plastic > >> > > than most imagine and humanity is changing. On the familiarity thing > >> > > James, E = mc2 is actually as slightly larger equation including p > >> > > (momentum) and looks like the right-angled triangle introduced to us > >> > > in Pythagoras' theorem. I take Deutsch as warning us against Bacon's > >> > > Idol of the Theatre. > > >> > > On 20 Nov, 04:56, James<[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> Whew Neil, I lack the time to grasp it well, though my instincts tell > >> > >> me > >> > >> to re-skim Pierce and modal logics to find out why it sounds so > >> > >> familiar. In my limited view S4 really bites us in the cognitive bias > >> > >> (meh, posterior) and Deutsche lays that out well on counterfactuals > >> > >> IMO. > >> > >> Hope I get more time soon to compare his robot with the 3,2,1 > >> > >> configuration in Trikonic geometry (while fresh in memory). > > >> > >> Again, it points me toward a much less dramatic revolution for our > >> > >> equation (depending on which emotions one prefers), transhumanism one > >> > >> way or another (good and or bad), a very exciting time in the > >> > >> anthropocene is it not? :p > > >> > >> Hope all is well everyone! > >> > >> Best Regards > > >> > >> On 11/16/2012 11:14 AM, archytas wrote: > > >> > >>> arxiv.org/abs/1210.7439 > >> > >>> Should produce David Deutsch's paper free. > > >> > >>> This is a good example of science philosophy trying to shift thinking > >> > >>> boundaries. There's some physics in it, but probably not enough to > >> > >>> put off a few readers in here. David works on how science may be > >> > >>> restricted by our traditional myths of origin - and that we tend to > >> > >>> posit origins (Big Bang etc.) that may be as unhelpful as god > >> > >>> concepts > >> > >>> to science (as opposed to spiritual discussion). > > >> > >>> He also challenges ideas of mathematical a priori - such as Kant's > >> > >>> claim to know the geometry of the universe in such a manner. > > >> > >>> The paper is speculative and I read it because I'm tinkering with > >> > >>> ideas of what economics might be if it was a science. I'm not a > >> > >>> believer in scientific method beyond tropical fish realism. What has > >> > >>> always struck me about economics is that it seems the prime reason > >> > >>> for > >> > >>> not doing things because it renders our hopes impossible. A truly > >> > >>> scientific theory seeks to show us what is possible and what won't > >> > >>> work. We make the Higgs' boson (or at least get to see some of its > >> > >>> decay particles) from hydrogen in several kilometres of the LHC at > >> > >>> CERN and shouldn't forget the construction involved. > > >> > >>> Classical constructors in science are catalysts. Biology is full of > >> > >>> them. David says the ultimate constructor may be knowledge and we > >> > >>> might be able to get to a sensible theory of human beings as such. > >> > >>> The 'unit' he is proposing is the task. I guess the problem he > >> > >>> wrestles with is the way we become technicians of dogma. > > >> > >>> I'm fairly sure my own revulsion with economics is based on the Bible > >> > >>> story of kicking over the tables of the money-lenders. David Graeber > >> > >>> has a book out suggesting religion was much more concerned with that > > ... > > read more »
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