I think you might be right on the driver, ahh I guess well see what happens. Exciting times huh. On Monday, 26 November 2012 04:31:22 UTC, archytas wrote: > > I suspect we need daring to admit we need the transition Lee. The > plan should be to provide decent livings for all through developing > new ways of living that are eco-friendly. I doubt there are any real > arguments against this. But in strategic management the mission and > future scenario bits are easier than 'transition'. We need the dream > to establish, working back, what the milestones would be. Somewhere > in this we have to stop war, establish policing that isn't a police > state and so on. I suspect the driver will have to be technology, as > argument does so little to displace ideology. > > On 15 Nov, 13:23, Lee Douglas <[email protected]> wrote: > > There Archy is my achilles heel. Seeing the end yes I can envisage > that, > > but as I say better brains than mine will have to handle transition. > > > > As to idealogy it is clear to me that this changes over time. For > example > > as I was growing up the corner shop was the 'Paki' shop, now in this > > country that sort of language, and hence any ideas that go along with > it, > > even from kids is simply not tolerated anymore. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wednesday, 31 October 2012 22:35:20 UTC, archytas wrote: > > > > > The good dream side of this is what you say Lee. But the thought > > > experiment is a challenge to current ideology. I've noticed over the > > > years that the most passionate defenders of the protestant work ethic > > > don't do jobs involving hard work for low pay. > > > > > On Oct 26, 2:19 pm, Lee Douglas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Ahhhh robot heaven is my ideal. > > > > > > It gets rid of money as nobody would need to barter goods or > services > > > > to survive, it would mean that humans can spend more time growing > and > > > > learning, and can you imagine the various works of art, in all > media? > > > > > > Now of course the thing to consider is the transitional period, and > I > > > guess > > > > this is Archy's main thrust. Our history shows us that > > > > such transitional periods are fraught with violence and upheaval, I > > > suspect > > > > a move to robotic heaven would be little different. > > > > > > So we have robots a plenty and much work going on in robotics. I > > > suspect > > > > the next thing we'll have to sort is robots that make and repair > robots. > > > > > > Should we concentrate then on food and water production and > > > distribution? > > > > Why yes I think we should. > > > > > > Get that done and then nobody has to pay for food or water, ahhh now > we > > > are > > > > getting somewhere. A world full of thinkers and artists! > > > > > > Energy next? > > > > > > On Wednesday, 19 September 2012 22:56:36 UTC+1, archytas wrote: > > > > > > > Thought experiments are devices of the imagination used to > investigate > > > > > the nature of things. Thought experimenting often takes place when > the > > > > > method of variation is employed in entertaining imaginative > > > > > suppositions. They are used for diverse reasons in a variety of > areas, > > > > > including economics, history, mathematics, philosophy, and > physics. > > > > > Most often thought experiments are communicated in narrative form, > > > > > sometimes through media like a diagram. Thought experiments should > be > > > > > distinguished from thinking about experiments, from merely > imagining > > > > > any experiments to be conducted outside the imagination, and from > > > > > psychological experiments with thoughts. They should also be > > > > > distinguished from counterfactual reasoning in general, as they > seem > > > > > to require an experimental element. > > > > >http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/thought-experiment/ > > > > > > > One I like is the notion of robot heaven. It's easy enough to > imagine > > > > > a time when machines grow our food, build our shelter and do our > > > > > work. The interesting stuff comes in thinking what this would > mean > > > > > for wealth distribution and the nature of society. What work > would be > > > > > left to do? One can also wonder what place any of our work ethics > > > > > would have in such a society. There may be some deconstructive > effect > > > > > on just what current work ideologies are in place for. > > > > > > > One of the great improvements technology brought to my life is > more or > > > > > less never having to go into a bank. The only real innovations in > > > > > banking are the ATM and electronic banking. This kind of > technology > > > > > and similar in agriculture and industry fundamentally reduce the > > > > > amount of human effort to grow and make what we need. We are in > > > > > partial state of robot heaven. > > > > > > > Our ideologies are not up to speed. Real unemployment is massive > and > > > > > education does little to provide job skills. We are sold > life-styles > > > > > and products by insane advertising. Job creation seems to be in > > > > > perverse areas like financial services or bringing back attended > gas- > > > > > pumps. With more efficient production we should be able to afford > a > > > > > bigger social sector and I can't for the life of me understand why > we > > > > > allow competition through crap wages and conditions. > > > > > > > A great deal of what we pay for could be available more or less > free. > > > > > Educational content and utility banking are examples - these are > areas > > > > > that could be ratinalised like agriculture and manufacturing. > > > > > Millions of jobs would go. We should be asking why jobs are so > > > > > central to out thinking on wealth distribution and how we might > > > > > encourage work without the rat race. >
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