I like Bill Hicks. His later stuff is metaphysical. His early stuff - well he let's everyone have it after learning to drink.
On Monday, November 26, 2012 7:40:20 PM UTC-5, Don Johnson wrote: > > On Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 6:15 PM, archytas <[email protected] <javascript:>> > wrote: > > At other levels I think we should be ridiculing such matters as the > > absence of disabled people in politically correct newsrooms and such. > > What about Chris Mathews? budda bump bump > > Charles Krauthammer, in contrast, is a paraplegic but ok from the neck up. > Most people don't even know about his disability because it's not relavent. > We like his commentary. > > dj > > > On Saturday, November 24, 2012 6:15:40 PM UTC-6, archytas wrote: >> >> The Brits do more nob gags and used to pack theatres to see a guy play >> the trombone with ass-gas- needless to say a Frenchman. Audience >> milking is central to some humour - this tends to put me off, but some >> are so good at it I don't notice until afterwards. US comedy films >> are usually dross, but your stand-ups usually great. My recent >> favourite is 'The Pope's Toilet' from Uruguay. The hero rides a bike >> everywhere and his wife describes him as lacking pump for a bicycle >> man. Why do the French smell? So even the blind can hate them. Why >> would you find an Irishman in the Alps? Where else would you find a >> downhill lake. Irish jokes are Belgian, Polish and Swedish etc. >> >> At other levels I think we should be ridiculing such matters as the >> absence of disabled people in politically correct newsrooms and such. >> >> On 24 Nov, 21:46, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >> > Over here, social workers have taken kids off foster parents because >> > of their membership of UKIP - a party that shares the desire of 65% of >> > the population to leave the EU and restrict immigration. You have to >> > laugh - or cry! >> > >> > On 24 Nov, 21:38, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Morecambe and Wise with Mum and Dad at Xmas perhaps. Laurel and >> > > Hardy. Many other popular comedians are more likely to make me weep. >> > > I never liked Chaplin (actually thinking Hitler more of a comedian >> > > than 'The Dictator') and we had Cannon and Ball here who hit a nerve >> I >> > > don't like. I can laugh with some of the ostensibly more vicious >> > > types like Bill Hicks and Frankie Boyle. Police and army culture >> > > reveres tough, sadistic humour with self-depreciation thrown in. >> > >> > > I'm against speech crime but it's also clear not everything goes. I >> > > don't agree with the Greek split - it's from Stanford EP - suspecting >> > > humour is closely linked with breakthrough thinking (though not the >> > > same) and unseating the biological trance of hierarchy (The Name of >> > > the Rose). >> > >> > > The SEP article concludes: >> > >> > > Along with the idealism of tragedy goes elitism. The people who >> matter >> > > in tragedy are kings, queens, and generals. In comedy there are more >> > > characters and more kinds of characters, women are more prominent, >> and >> > > many protagonists come from lower classes. Everybody counts for one. >> > > That shows in the language of comedy, which, unlike the elevated >> > > language of tragedy, is common speech. The basic unit in tragedy is >> > > the individual, in comedy it is the family, group of friends, or >> bunch >> > > of co-workers. >> > >> > > While tragic heroes are emotionally engaged with their problems, >> comic >> > > protagonists show emotional disengagement. They think, rather than >> > > feel, their way through difficulties. By presenting such characters >> as >> > > role models, comedy has implicitly valorized the benefits of humor >> > > that are now being empirically verified, such as that it is >> > > psychologically and physically healthy, it fosters mental >> flexibility, >> > > and it serves as a social lubricant. With a few exceptions like >> > > Aquinas, philosophers have ignored these benefits. >> > >> > > If philosophers wanted to undo the traditional prejudices against >> > > humor, they might consider the affinities between one contemporary >> > > genre of comedy—standup comedy—and philosophy itself. There are at >> > > least seven. First, standup comedy and philosophy are conversational: >> > > like the dialogue format that started with Plato, standup routines >> are >> > > interactive. Second, both reflect on familiar experiences, especially >> > > puzzling ones. We wake from a vivid dream, for example, not sure what >> > > has happened and what is happening. Third, like philosophers, standup >> > > comics often approach puzzling experiences with questions. “If I >> > > thought that dream was real, how do I know that I'm not dreaming >> right >> > > now?” The most basic starting point in both philosophy and standup >> > > comedy is “X—what's up with that?” Fourth, as they think about >> > > familiar experiences, both philosophers and comics step back >> > > emotionally from them. Henri Bergson (1911 [1900]) spoke of the >> > > “momentary anaesthesia of the heart” in laughter. Emotional >> > > disengagement long ago became a meaning of “philosophical”—“rational, >> > > sensibly composed, calm, as in a difficult situation.” Fifth, >> > > philosophers and standup comics think critically. They ask whether >> > > familiar ideas make sense, and they refuse to defer to authority and >> > > tradition. It was for his critical thinking that Socrates was >> > > executed. So were cabaret comics in Germany who mocked the Third >> > > Reich. Sixth, in thinking critically, philosophers and standup comics >> > > pay careful attention to language. Attacking sloppy and illogical >> uses >> > > of words is standard in both, and so is finding exactly the right >> > > words to express an idea. Seventh, the pleasure of standup comedy is >> > > often like the pleasure of doing philosophy. In both we relish new >> > > ways of looking at things and delight in surprising thoughts. William >> > > James (1979 [1911], 11) said that philosophy “sees the familiar as if >> > > it were strange, and the strange as if it were familiar.” The same is >> > > true of standup comedy. Simon Critchley has written that both ask us >> > > to “look at things as if you had just landed from another >> > > planet” (2002, 1). >> > >> > > One recent philosopher attuned to the affinity between comedy and >> > > philosophy was Bertrand Russell. “The point of philosophy,” he said, >> > > “is to start with something so simple as not to seem worth stating, >> > > and to end with something so paradoxical that no one will believe >> > > it” (1918, 53). In the middle of an argument, he once observed, “This >> > > seems plainly absurd: but whoever wishes to become a philosopher must >> > > learn not to be frightened by absurdities” (2008 [1912], 17). >> > >> > > I laughed a lot more reading Lyotard's 'Libidinal Economy' - rather >> as >> > > I might chuckle along with a Tom Sharpe farce. I'm not sure what >> > > makes me laugh until it does. The ideologies through which people >> > > live lives often does, but this is without joy. >> > >> > > On 24 Nov, 19:40, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > > > I have seen it used recently as an ineffective cover for a badly >> > > > positioned provocative argument. "I was only kidding, she doesn't >> > > > understand my humor..." not hard to see through and not inspiring >> > > > confidence. The dance of the fool. >> > >> > > > Kind humor, irony, absurd, surprise are more my style than sarcasm >> or >> > > > more aggressive humor that derides or shames. >> > >> > > > There is no denying the biochemical rush that comes with laughing >> > > > oneself to tears, and the joy that comes with sharing such a >> moment. >> > >> > > > On Nov 24, 1:51 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > > > > While there is only speculation about how humor developed in >> early >> > > > > humans, we know that by the 6th century BCE the Greeks had >> > > > > institutionalized it in the ritual known as comedy, and that it >> was >> > > > > performed with a contrasting dramatic form known as tragedy. Both >> were >> > > > > based on the violation of mental patterns and expectations, and >> in >> > > > > both the world is a tangle of conflicting systems where humans >> live in >> > > > > the shadow of failure, folly, and death. Like tragedy, comedy >> > > > > represents life as full of tension, danger, and struggle, with >> success >> > > > > or failure often depending on chance factors. Where they differ >> is in >> > > > > the responses of the lead characters to life's incongruities. >> > > > > Identifying with these characters, audiences at comedies and >> tragedies >> > > > > have contrasting responses to events in the dramas. And because >> these >> > > > > responses carry over to similar situations in life, comedy and >> tragedy >> > > > > embody contrasting responses to the incongruities in life. >> > >> > > > > Tragedy valorizes serious, emotional engagement with life's >> problems, >> > > > > even struggle to the death. Along with epic, it is part of the >> Western >> > > > > heroic tradition that extols ideals, the willingness to fight for >> > > > > them, and honor. The tragic ethos is linked to patriarchy and >> > > > > militarism—many of its heroes are kings and conquerors—and it >> > > > > valorizes what Conrad Hyers (1996) calls Warrior Virtues—blind >> > > > > obedience, the willingness to kill or die on command, >> unquestioning >> > > > > loyalty, single-mindedness, resoluteness of purpose, and pride. >> > >> > > > > Comedy, by contrast, embodies an anti-heroic, pragmatic attitude >> > > > > toward life's incongruities. From Aristophanes' Lysistrata to >> Charlie >> > > > > Chaplin's The Great Dictator to Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11, >> > > > > comedy has mocked the irrationality of militarism and blind >> respect >> > > > > for authority. Its own methods of handling conflict include deal- >> > > > > making, trickery, getting an enemy drunk, and running away. As >> the >> > > > > Irish saying goes, you're only a coward for a moment, but you're >> dead >> > > > > for the rest of your life. In place of Warrior Virtues, it extols >> > > > > critical thinking, cleverness, adaptability, and an appreciation >> of >> > > > > physical pleasures like eating, drinking, and sex. >> > >> > > > > Much humour is cruel - but try and read cruelty in to 'Doctor, >> doctor, >> > > > > I've lost an electron'. 'Are you sure'? 'Yes, I'm positive'. >> > >> > > > > What do we think humour is? >> > --
