Perhap it is just TV playing to the lowest common demominator? On Tuesday, 27 November 2012 02:45:36 UTC, archytas wrote:
> Not seen Chris or Charles Don. Hicks, a few derivative references > apart, could have been a Brit. Our cultures are probably less far > apart than such matters as the absence of footpaths in the States. > Our serious comedy is mostly political satire from Yes Minister to The > Thick of It. What I was wondering was whether any one else feels more > general film and literature has gone Tragic and plots and characters > less and less comedic in the old Greek sense. Our old sitcoms like > Dads' Army, Steptoe and Son and plenty of others had a great element > of 'daft people like me and you caught in a plight and muddling > through'. Bilko and Top Cat had this too. A fairly recent French > fil,m Mario et Jeanette had this. > > On 27 Nov, 00:40, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > > On Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 6:15 PM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > At other levels I think we should be ridiculing such matters as the > > > absence of disabled people in politically correct newsrooms and such. > > > > What about Chris Mathews? budda bump bump > > > > Charles Krauthammer, in contrast, is a paraplegic but ok from the neck > up. > > Most people don't even know about his disability because it's not > relavent. > > We like his commentary. > > > > dj > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Saturday, November 24, 2012 6:15:40 PM UTC-6, archytas wrote: > > > > > The Brits do more nob gags and used to pack theatres to see a guy play > > > the trombone with ass-gas- needless to say a Frenchman. Audience > > > milking is central to some humour - this tends to put me off, but some > > > are so good at it I don't notice until afterwards. US comedy films > > > are usually dross, but your stand-ups usually great. My recent > > > favourite is 'The Pope's Toilet' from Uruguay. The hero rides a bike > > > everywhere and his wife describes him as lacking pump for a bicycle > > > man. Why do the French smell? So even the blind can hate them. Why > > > would you find an Irishman in the Alps? Where else would you find a > > > downhill lake. Irish jokes are Belgian, Polish and Swedish etc. > > > > > At other levels I think we should be ridiculing such matters as the > > > absence of disabled people in politically correct newsrooms and such. > > > > > On 24 Nov, 21:46, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Over here, social workers have taken kids off foster parents because > > > > of their membership of UKIP - a party that shares the desire of 65% > of > > > > the population to leave the EU and restrict immigration. You have > to > > > > laugh - or cry! > > > > > > On 24 Nov, 21:38, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Morecambe and Wise with Mum and Dad at Xmas perhaps. Laurel and > > > > > Hardy. Many other popular comedians are more likely to make me > weep. > > > > > I never liked Chaplin (actually thinking Hitler more of a comedian > > > > > than 'The Dictator') and we had Cannon and Ball here who hit a > nerve I > > > > > don't like. I can laugh with some of the ostensibly more > vicious > > > > > types like Bill Hicks and Frankie Boyle. Police and army culture > > > > > reveres tough, sadistic humour with self-depreciation thrown in. > > > > > > > I'm against speech crime but it's also clear not everything goes. > I > > > > > don't agree with the Greek split - it's from Stanford EP - > suspecting > > > > > humour is closely linked with breakthrough thinking (though not > the > > > > > same) and unseating the biological trance of hierarchy (The Name > of > > > > > the Rose). > > > > > > > The SEP article concludes: > > > > > > > Along with the idealism of tragedy goes elitism. The people who > matter > > > > > in tragedy are kings, queens, and generals. In comedy there are > more > > > > > characters and more kinds of characters, women are more prominent, > and > > > > > many protagonists come from lower classes. Everybody counts for > one. > > > > > That shows in the language of comedy, which, unlike the elevated > > > > > language of tragedy, is common speech. The basic unit in tragedy > is > > > > > the individual, in comedy it is the family, group of friends, or > bunch > > > > > of co-workers. > > > > > > > While tragic heroes are emotionally engaged with their problems, > comic > > > > > protagonists show emotional disengagement. They think, rather than > > > > > feel, their way through difficulties. By presenting such > characters as > > > > > role models, comedy has implicitly valorized the benefits of humor > > > > > that are now being empirically verified, such as that it is > > > > > psychologically and physically healthy, it fosters mental > flexibility, > > > > > and it serves as a social lubricant. With a few exceptions like > > > > > Aquinas, philosophers have ignored these benefits. > > > > > > > If philosophers wanted to undo the traditional prejudices against > > > > > humor, they might consider the affinities between one contemporary > > > > > genre of comedy—standup comedy—and philosophy itself. There are at > > > > > least seven. First, standup comedy and philosophy are > conversational: > > > > > like the dialogue format that started with Plato, standup routines > are > > > > > interactive. Second, both reflect on familiar experiences, > especially > > > > > puzzling ones. We wake from a vivid dream, for example, not sure > what > > > > > has happened and what is happening. Third, like philosophers, > standup > > > > > comics often approach puzzling experiences with questions. “If I > > > > > thought that dream was real, how do I know that I'm not dreaming > right > > > > > now?” The most basic starting point in both philosophy and standup > > > > > comedy is “X—what's up with that?” Fourth, as they think about > > > > > familiar experiences, both philosophers and comics step back > > > > > emotionally from them. Henri Bergson (1911 [1900]) spoke of the > > > > > “momentary anaesthesia of the heart” in laughter. Emotional > > > > > disengagement long ago became a meaning of > “philosophical”—“rational, > > > > > sensibly composed, calm, as in a difficult situation.” Fifth, > > > > > philosophers and standup comics think critically. They ask whether > > > > > familiar ideas make sense, and they refuse to defer to authority > and > > > > > tradition. It was for his critical thinking that Socrates was > > > > > executed. So were cabaret comics in Germany who mocked the Third > > > > > Reich. Sixth, in thinking critically, philosophers and standup > comics > > > > > pay careful attention to language. Attacking sloppy and illogical > uses > > > > > of words is standard in both, and so is finding exactly the right > > > > > words to express an idea. Seventh, the pleasure of standup comedy > is > > > > > often like the pleasure of doing philosophy. In both we relish new > > > > > ways of looking at things and delight in surprising thoughts. > William > > > > > James (1979 [1911], 11) said that philosophy “sees the familiar as > if > > > > > it were strange, and the strange as if it were familiar.” The same > is > > > > > true of standup comedy. Simon Critchley has written that both ask > us > > > > > to “look at things as if you had just landed from another > > > > > planet” (2002, 1). > > > > > > > One recent philosopher attuned to the affinity between comedy and > > > > > philosophy was Bertrand Russell. “The point of philosophy,” he > said, > > > > > “is to start with something so simple as not to seem worth > stating, > > > > > and to end with something so paradoxical that no one will believe > > > > > it” (1918, 53). In the middle of an argument, he once observed, > “This > > > > > seems plainly absurd: but whoever wishes to become a philosopher > must > > > > > learn not to be frightened by absurdities” (2008 [1912], 17). > > > > > > > I laughed a lot more reading Lyotard's 'Libidinal Economy' - > rather as > > > > > I might chuckle along with a Tom Sharpe farce. I'm not sure what > > > > > makes me laugh until it does. The ideologies through which people > > > > > live lives often does, but this is without joy. > > > > > > > On 24 Nov, 19:40, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > I have seen it used recently as an ineffective cover for a badly > > > > > > positioned provocative argument. "I was only kidding, she > doesn't > > > > > > understand my humor..." not hard to see through and not > inspiring > > > > > > confidence. The dance of the fool. > > > > > > > > Kind humor, irony, absurd, surprise are more my style than > sarcasm > > > or > > > > > > more aggressive humor that derides or shames. > > > > > > > > There is no denying the biochemical rush that comes with > laughing > > > > > > oneself to tears, and the joy that comes with sharing such a > moment. > > > > > > > > On Nov 24, 1:51 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > While there is only speculation about how humor developed in > early > > > > > > > humans, we know that by the 6th century BCE the Greeks had > > > > > > > institutionalized it in the ritual known as comedy, and that > it > > > was > > > > > > > performed with a contrasting dramatic form known as tragedy. > Both > > > were > > > > > > > based on the violation of mental patterns and expectations, > and in > > > > > > > both the world is a tangle of conflicting systems where humans > > > live in > > > > > > > the shadow of failure, folly, and death. Like tragedy, comedy > > > > > > > represents life as full of tension, danger, and struggle, with > > > success > > > > > > > or failure often depending on chance factors. Where they > differ is > > > in > > > > > > > the responses of the lead characters to life's incongruities. > > > > > > > Identifying with these characters, audiences at comedies and > > > tragedies > > > > > > > have contrasting responses to events in the dramas. And > because > > > these > > > > > > > responses carry over to similar situations in life, comedy and > > > tragedy > > > > > > > embody contrasting responses to the incongruities in life. > > > > > > > > > Tragedy valorizes serious, emotional engagement with life's > > > problems, > > > > > > > even struggle to the death. Along with epic, it is part of the > > > Western > > > > > > > heroic tradition that extols ideals, the willingness to fight > for > > > > > > > them, and honor. The tragic ethos is linked to patriarchy and > > > > > > > militarism—many of its heroes are kings and conquerors—and it > > > > > > > valorizes what Conrad Hyers (1996) calls Warrior Virtues—blind > > > > > > > obedience, the willingness to kill or die on command, > > > unquestioning > > > > > > > loyalty, single-mindedness, resoluteness of purpose, and > pride. > > > > > > > > > Comedy, by contrast, embodies an anti-heroic, pragmatic > attitude > > > > > > > toward life's incongruities. From Aristophanes' Lysistrata to > > > Charlie > > > > > > > Chaplin's The Great Dictator to Michael Moore's Fahrenheit > 9/11, > > > > > > > comedy has mocked the irrationality of militarism and blind > > > respect > > > > > > > for authority. Its own methods of handling > > > > ... > > > > read more » > --
