I agree what little comedy I have heard I actually find quite boring so I never watch it and sure as heck would not pay to see it, Allan
On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 1:30 PM, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > I don't laugh much at popular comedy. It doesn't seem to get past childish > bathroom humor. But find humor invaluable to life and relationship. Even > deconstructive humor brings us to the place where we find what is of real > value. But it isn't cruel. Getting past the barbed humor, or what is being > passed as humor but is really meant to insult or injure is simply passing up > baloney for filet mignon. Monty Python never fails to amuse, as it shows the > timeless human condition in a humorous light. > > > On Monday, November 26, 2012 9:45:36 PM UTC-5, archytas wrote: >> >> Not seen Chris or Charles Don. Hicks, a few derivative references >> apart, could have been a Brit. Our cultures are probably less far >> apart than such matters as the absence of footpaths in the States. >> Our serious comedy is mostly political satire from Yes Minister to The >> Thick of It. What I was wondering was whether any one else feels more >> general film and literature has gone Tragic and plots and characters >> less and less comedic in the old Greek sense. Our old sitcoms like >> Dads' Army, Steptoe and Son and plenty of others had a great element >> of 'daft people like me and you caught in a plight and muddling >> through'. Bilko and Top Cat had this too. A fairly recent French >> fil,m Mario et Jeanette had this. >> >> On 27 Nov, 00:40, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: >> > On Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 6:15 PM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >> > > At other levels I think we should be ridiculing such matters as the >> > > absence of disabled people in politically correct newsrooms and such. >> > >> > What about Chris Mathews? budda bump bump >> > >> > Charles Krauthammer, in contrast, is a paraplegic but ok from the neck >> > up. >> > Most people don't even know about his disability because it's not >> > relavent. >> > We like his commentary. >> > >> > dj >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On Saturday, November 24, 2012 6:15:40 PM UTC-6, archytas wrote: >> > >> > > The Brits do more nob gags and used to pack theatres to see a guy play >> > > the trombone with ass-gas- needless to say a Frenchman. Audience >> > > milking is central to some humour - this tends to put me off, but some >> > > are so good at it I don't notice until afterwards. US comedy films >> > > are usually dross, but your stand-ups usually great. My recent >> > > favourite is 'The Pope's Toilet' from Uruguay. The hero rides a bike >> > > everywhere and his wife describes him as lacking pump for a bicycle >> > > man. Why do the French smell? So even the blind can hate them. Why >> > > would you find an Irishman in the Alps? Where else would you find a >> > > downhill lake. Irish jokes are Belgian, Polish and Swedish etc. >> > >> > > At other levels I think we should be ridiculing such matters as the >> > > absence of disabled people in politically correct newsrooms and such. >> > >> > > On 24 Nov, 21:46, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >> > > > Over here, social workers have taken kids off foster parents because >> > > > of their membership of UKIP - a party that shares the desire of 65% >> > > > of >> > > > the population to leave the EU and restrict immigration. You have >> > > > to >> > > > laugh - or cry! >> > >> > > > On 24 Nov, 21:38, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > > > > Morecambe and Wise with Mum and Dad at Xmas perhaps. Laurel and >> > > > > Hardy. Many other popular comedians are more likely to make me >> > > > > weep. >> > > > > I never liked Chaplin (actually thinking Hitler more of a comedian >> > > > > than 'The Dictator') and we had Cannon and Ball here who hit a >> > > > > nerve I >> > > > > don't like. I can laugh with some of the ostensibly more >> > > > > vicious >> > > > > types like Bill Hicks and Frankie Boyle. Police and army culture >> > > > > reveres tough, sadistic humour with self-depreciation thrown in. >> > >> > > > > I'm against speech crime but it's also clear not everything goes. >> > > > > I >> > > > > don't agree with the Greek split - it's from Stanford EP - >> > > > > suspecting >> > > > > humour is closely linked with breakthrough thinking (though not >> > > > > the >> > > > > same) and unseating the biological trance of hierarchy (The Name >> > > > > of >> > > > > the Rose). >> > >> > > > > The SEP article concludes: >> > >> > > > > Along with the idealism of tragedy goes elitism. The people who >> > > > > matter >> > > > > in tragedy are kings, queens, and generals. In comedy there are >> > > > > more >> > > > > characters and more kinds of characters, women are more prominent, >> > > > > and >> > > > > many protagonists come from lower classes. Everybody counts for >> > > > > one. >> > > > > That shows in the language of comedy, which, unlike the elevated >> > > > > language of tragedy, is common speech. The basic unit in tragedy >> > > > > is >> > > > > the individual, in comedy it is the family, group of friends, or >> > > > > bunch >> > > > > of co-workers. >> > >> > > > > While tragic heroes are emotionally engaged with their problems, >> > > > > comic >> > > > > protagonists show emotional disengagement. They think, rather than >> > > > > feel, their way through difficulties. By presenting such >> > > > > characters as >> > > > > role models, comedy has implicitly valorized the benefits of humor >> > > > > that are now being empirically verified, such as that it is >> > > > > psychologically and physically healthy, it fosters mental >> > > > > flexibility, >> > > > > and it serves as a social lubricant. With a few exceptions like >> > > > > Aquinas, philosophers have ignored these benefits. >> > >> > > > > If philosophers wanted to undo the traditional prejudices against >> > > > > humor, they might consider the affinities between one contemporary >> > > > > genre of comedy—standup comedy—and philosophy itself. There are at >> > > > > least seven. First, standup comedy and philosophy are >> > > > > conversational: >> > > > > like the dialogue format that started with Plato, standup routines >> > > > > are >> > > > > interactive. Second, both reflect on familiar experiences, >> > > > > especially >> > > > > puzzling ones. We wake from a vivid dream, for example, not sure >> > > > > what >> > > > > has happened and what is happening. Third, like philosophers, >> > > > > standup >> > > > > comics often approach puzzling experiences with questions. “If I >> > > > > thought that dream was real, how do I know that I'm not dreaming >> > > > > right >> > > > > now?” The most basic starting point in both philosophy and standup >> > > > > comedy is “X—what's up with that?” Fourth, as they think about >> > > > > familiar experiences, both philosophers and comics step back >> > > > > emotionally from them. Henri Bergson (1911 [1900]) spoke of the >> > > > > “momentary anaesthesia of the heart” in laughter. Emotional >> > > > > disengagement long ago became a meaning of >> > > > > “philosophical”—“rational, >> > > > > sensibly composed, calm, as in a difficult situation.” Fifth, >> > > > > philosophers and standup comics think critically. They ask whether >> > > > > familiar ideas make sense, and they refuse to defer to authority >> > > > > and >> > > > > tradition. It was for his critical thinking that Socrates was >> > > > > executed. So were cabaret comics in Germany who mocked the Third >> > > > > Reich. Sixth, in thinking critically, philosophers and standup >> > > > > comics >> > > > > pay careful attention to language. Attacking sloppy and illogical >> > > > > uses >> > > > > of words is standard in both, and so is finding exactly the right >> > > > > words to express an idea. Seventh, the pleasure of standup comedy >> > > > > is >> > > > > often like the pleasure of doing philosophy. In both we relish new >> > > > > ways of looking at things and delight in surprising thoughts. >> > > > > William >> > > > > James (1979 [1911], 11) said that philosophy “sees the familiar as >> > > > > if >> > > > > it were strange, and the strange as if it were familiar.” The same >> > > > > is >> > > > > true of standup comedy. Simon Critchley has written that both ask >> > > > > us >> > > > > to “look at things as if you had just landed from another >> > > > > planet” (2002, 1). >> > >> > > > > One recent philosopher attuned to the affinity between comedy and >> > > > > philosophy was Bertrand Russell. “The point of philosophy,” he >> > > > > said, >> > > > > “is to start with something so simple as not to seem worth >> > > > > stating, >> > > > > and to end with something so paradoxical that no one will believe >> > > > > it” (1918, 53). In the middle of an argument, he once observed, >> > > > > “This >> > > > > seems plainly absurd: but whoever wishes to become a philosopher >> > > > > must >> > > > > learn not to be frightened by absurdities” (2008 [1912], 17). >> > >> > > > > I laughed a lot more reading Lyotard's 'Libidinal Economy' - >> > > > > rather as >> > > > > I might chuckle along with a Tom Sharpe farce. I'm not sure what >> > > > > makes me laugh until it does. The ideologies through which people >> > > > > live lives often does, but this is without joy. >> > >> > > > > On 24 Nov, 19:40, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > > > > > I have seen it used recently as an ineffective cover for a badly >> > > > > > positioned provocative argument. "I was only kidding, she >> > > > > > doesn't >> > > > > > understand my humor..." not hard to see through and not >> > > > > > inspiring >> > > > > > confidence. The dance of the fool. >> > >> > > > > > Kind humor, irony, absurd, surprise are more my style than >> > > > > > sarcasm >> > > or >> > > > > > more aggressive humor that derides or shames. >> > >> > > > > > There is no denying the biochemical rush that comes with >> > > > > > laughing >> > > > > > oneself to tears, and the joy that comes with sharing such a >> > > > > > moment. >> > >> > > > > > On Nov 24, 1:51 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > > > > > > While there is only speculation about how humor developed in >> > > > > > > early >> > > > > > > humans, we know that by the 6th century BCE the Greeks had >> > > > > > > institutionalized it in the ritual known as comedy, and that >> > > > > > > it >> > > was >> > > > > > > performed with a contrasting dramatic form known as tragedy. >> > > > > > > Both >> > > were >> > > > > > > based on the violation of mental patterns and expectations, >> > > > > > > and in >> > > > > > > both the world is a tangle of conflicting systems where humans >> > > live in >> > > > > > > the shadow of failure, folly, and death. Like tragedy, comedy >> > > > > > > represents life as full of tension, danger, and struggle, with >> > > success >> > > > > > > or failure often depending on chance factors. Where they >> > > > > > > differ is >> > > in >> > > > > > > the responses of the lead characters to life's incongruities. >> > > > > > > Identifying with these characters, audiences at comedies and >> > > tragedies >> > > > > > > have contrasting responses to events in the dramas. And >> > > > > > > because >> > > these >> > > > > > > responses carry over to similar situations in life, comedy and >> > > tragedy >> > > > > > > embody contrasting responses to the incongruities in life. >> > >> > > > > > > Tragedy valorizes serious, emotional engagement with life's >> > > problems, >> > > > > > > even struggle to the death. Along with epic, it is part of the >> > > Western >> > > > > > > heroic tradition that extols ideals, the willingness to fight >> > > > > > > for >> > > > > > > them, and honor. The tragic ethos is linked to patriarchy and >> > > > > > > militarism—many of its heroes are kings and conquerors—and it >> > > > > > > valorizes what Conrad Hyers (1996) calls Warrior Virtues—blind >> > > > > > > obedience, the willingness to kill or die on command, >> > > unquestioning >> > > > > > > loyalty, single-mindedness, resoluteness of purpose, and >> > > > > > > pride. >> > >> > > > > > > Comedy, by contrast, embodies an anti-heroic, pragmatic >> > > > > > > attitude >> > > > > > > toward life's incongruities. From Aristophanes' Lysistrata to >> > > Charlie >> > > > > > > Chaplin's The Great Dictator to Michael Moore's Fahrenheit >> > > > > > > 9/11, >> > > > > > > comedy has mocked the irrationality of militarism and blind >> > > respect >> > > > > > > for authority. Its own methods of handling >> > >> > ... >> > >> > read more » > > -- > > > -- ( ) |_D Allan Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living. I am a Natural Airgunner - Full of Hot Air & Ready To Expel It Quickly. --
