In the US there is a hidden party called the elitist party.. the republican party since reagan have become nothing more that a puppet.. that is whay you see the lack of cooperation between the parties .. to be republican you have to be a hoarding rich.... sad to see but true..sometimes I wonder if they have lo stall spirituality ;o) Lost souls ...hmm don't know, I personally .don't want to be there.the price is far to high. Allan
On Sun, Jan 20, 2013 at 4:01 AM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > I have little doubt that is a likely, needed route Allan - we are > currently back on the road to debt peonage. One can argue for this > against capitalist and socialist outcomes. But why is there no > political party standing for office on this basis? UK Labour Party > candidates stood on issues like democratic foreign policy in 1920 and > even some Nazis ran on 'free Eurasian labour market' tickets. There > are people making this argument in pretty full terms, but there is no > party to vote for in any of our countries. In the meantime, Goldman > Sachs, JP Morgan and the rest are buying commodities to hoard, > including food, through exchange traded funds licensed by our > governments (SEC etc.) > > . > > On Jan 19, 10:45 am, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: >> The only way I see an honest government is strictly control in >> influence of corporations and spin doctors with all of their dealings >> involving government being recorded both video and audio with these >> being open to public scrutiny,, not just special commissions,, Also >> corporation presidents with the board of directors need to serve >> prison sentences when their companies break the law,, once convicted >> no longer be able to act as advisers or hold the offices of >> corporations.. ending all corporations for lawyers so the can no >> longer hide.. >> the enforcement of corporate need to be brought into effect instead of >> letting them slide. >> nasty huh... >> Allan >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 9:57 AM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >> > We call ourselves democracies - the classic was perhaps the DDR (East >> > Germany), famous for strange athletes, Stasi and the Trabant. But >> > shouldn't we expect the Doublespeak Allan? Most of us don't really >> > want to be involved in politics - it's a bit like running the coffee >> > fund in a school common room. Like Gabby I tend to vote Green - but >> > this is really about registering my protest that the main parties are >> > now scum. We could, as Andrew suggested, have a much less >> > representative politics and make more decisions ourselves. In the UK >> > we should already have decentralised from London and become much more >> > electronic in base. It must be very easy for 'foreign powers' to >> > infiltrate our main political parties and they are all stacked out >> > with highly suspicious suit horses. There has long been no one for me >> > to vote for. We need revolutionary ideas about the system and I don't >> > mean bombs, capes, dubious mustaches and a "temporary" dictatorship of >> > the proles. This is why I think radical change in our understanding >> > and then technology of argument might help. You astutely note we >> > don't have any real democracies - but were earlier clinging to the >> > notion of voting involving argument - I'm saying that ain't 'real' >> > either. >> >> > On 19 Jan, 07:52, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> I don't see how you can call any government a democracy .. the USA is >> >> a republic and I do not see how you can call any government when >> >> leadership keep palling around with the wealth chasing the golden >> >> calf. >> >> Allan >> >> >> On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 1:21 AM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > Computing has brought about changes in maths on grounds of speed in >> >> > calculation that humans can't achieve in lifetimes - patterns appear >> >> > in massive iterations we simply don't have time to do. I don't have >> >> > much problem with this if, say, it lets us devise flight plans to >> >> > Mars. They are increasingly used to have information first, perhaps >> >> > like someone using a telescope to spot which ship is coming home in >> >> > order to unload what stock of goods one has while prices are still >> >> > high before its goods are docked. I doubt the entire use of the >> >> > technology in economics. In some areas of science we are not sure >> >> > what the computers are telling us and they appear to be "thinking".I >> >> > have taught many people to drive spreadsheets and databases - though >> >> > few really learn to manipulate new questions into them or design >> >> > useful reporting from them. >> >> > Rigs hits one of the nails of democracy on the head and Andrew drives >> >> > in another. Unlike Gabby I tend to view faith as a weakness. The >> >> > vinegar and oil approach is probably cast as incommensurability in >> >> > philosophy - though combined as salad dressing Andrew's meat is my >> >> > poison. I suspect much allegedly incommensurate is merely >> >> > incompatible due to definition. Chemists could no doubt produce a >> >> > solution with both oil and vinegar in it. Wiles' solution to Fermat's >> >> > last theorem bridges modular and elliptic equations and Sneed and >> >> > Ludwig have used set theory to show compatibility between older and >> >> > modern physics (scientists mostly believed this anyway). >> >> >> > The question is whether there is something we can apply to the sad >> >> > state of democracy that keeps the egalitarianism better than our very >> >> > peculiar voting systems. If we had an "argument machine" we might be >> >> > able t get past Crusade/Jihad, Sunni/Shia, Catholic/Protestant, Hindi/ >> >> > Muslim and so on - and get into what is common exploitation on all >> >> > sides - the human aspects rigs points out - and to change to the more >> >> > positive ones. I may even share (something like) Gabby's >> >> > 'frustration' with agnostics - though an explication of this n both >> >> > sides would be long. >> >> >> > This is tough territory - and very unlike the spiv Blair uttering >> >> > 'education, education, education' (something I first heard in East >> >> > Germany) and the ease with which we are gulled by such blandishments >> >> > with no thought of how we can actually create graduate jobs 50:50 and >> >> > what such a society would be. We need to know more about what buttons >> >> > the likes of Blair and adverts push. I suspect part of the answer >> >> > would be the creation of technology to support a level playing field - >> >> > but as I write this I'm fairly sure we are being warmed up for war >> >> > (it's a bit like Jung's dream). >> >> >> > On Jan 18, 11:11 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> Vinegar and oil are prime reasons I don't order salad when out - hate >> >> >> them both! I agree entirely with Gabby on "political argument" and >> >> >> would say in addition academic argument can be as bad and the majority >> >> >> of it is. When asked most people say they vote on the economy - when >> >> >> further asked what the economy is they are clueless. One of us at >> >> >> least will need a steel claw to make a success of Al's lair and our >> >> >> 'freedom through world domination' scheme. >> >> >> >> On Jan 18, 3:46 pm, andrew vecsey <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >> > Faith and reason, like vinegar and oil (my favorite salad dressing) >> >> >> > ,go >> >> >> > together and complement each other really well. Like the bible >> >> >> > teaches, the >> >> >> > knowledge of good and evil or technology is a double edged sword. >> >> >> > You can >> >> >> > not have one without the other. Like playing with matches, it is not >> >> >> > recommended for children. As for teaching morals, I do not think it >> >> >> > can be >> >> >> > taught by teachers. Education and democracy if used morally can and >> >> >> > does >> >> >> > fill empty bellies.I agree with you Rigs about democracy. Democracy >> >> >> > as we >> >> >> > have it in all democratic countries (except Switzerland) lasts only >> >> >> > for a >> >> >> > day every 4 or 5 years when we elect representatives with meaningless >> >> >> > promises to represent us. >> >> >> >> > On Friday, January 18, 2013 12:54:01 PM UTC+1, rigs wrote: >> >> >> >> > > Faith and Reason are like vinegar and oil. The Enlightenment has >> >> >> > > brought us hence- the new Dark Ages? Technology is not a solution >> >> >> > > because it can be corrupted. I have much in common with a Roman >> >> >> > > matron >> >> >> > > of the 4th C. as I watch/read of the new barbarians. My modern >> >> >> > > conveniences are simply mechanical slaves. It does little good to >> >> >> > > teach ethics/morals when other parts of our supposed united world >> >> >> > > are >> >> >> > > not in sync. Education/democracy will not fill an empty belly or >> >> >> > > replenish wasted croplands and raw materials. Throwing money at >> >> >> > > unstable countries will not rescue us or them (Egypt) nor will >> >> >> > > allowing disasters to take their course win us friends (Syria). >> >> >> > > Democracy has become a bloated centralized authority so the >> >> >> > > political >> >> >> > > differences are meaningless. The patterns of human history have >> >> >> > > changed very little, unfortunately- it still remains about greed, >> >> >> > > power and hubris. >> >> >> >> > > On Jan 17, 7:59 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> > > > Kaggle is also up and running, apparently producing better than >> >> >> > > > expert >> >> >> > > > results from data crunching. The project, whether a Tower of >> >> >> > > > Babel >> >> >> > > > confronting god or not, is underway. >> >> >> >> > > > On Jan 18, 12:22 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >> > > > > At last we discover the lair from which you intend to launch >> >> >> > > > > 'Dr No' >> >> >> > > > > plans Al! >> >> >> >> > > > > One can argue that democracy already uses a 'non-argument >> >> >> > > > > technology' >> >> >> > > > > called voting. >> >> >> >> > > > > In many respects Allan is right on argument being about >> >> >> > > > > reinforcing an >> >> >> > > > > individual's point of view. >> >> >> >> > > > > Studies of the Internet show the most likely reaction to facts >> >> >> > > > > is >> >> >> > > > > backfire as people dig in on their original position. >> >> >> >> > > > > Does anyone know 'where' human decision-making takes place - >> >> >> > > > > much >> >> >> > > > > modern testing indicates it comes before anything rational >> >> >> > > > > (the social >> >> >> > > > > animal thesis). Adverts are highly irrational, political bull >> >> >> > > > > simplistic and often not true - FDR matched others in rhetoric >> >> >> > > > > on not >> >> >> > > > > letting the English fight to the last American to get elected. >> >> >> > > > > Would >> >> >> > > > > any of us want to claim how WW2 came about - I suspect not - >> >> >> > > > > but even >> >> >> > > > > what we might know is likely more factual than those who think >> >> >> > > > > the >> >> >> > > > > Soviets were on the other side. Universal education hasn't >> >> >> > > > > helped >> >> >> > > > > much on fact bases in individuals. >> >> >> >> > > > > One has to suspect if we could build a bulldung detector it >> >> >> > > > > wouldn't >> >> >> > > > > switch off until after we shot the last politician and >> >> >> > > > > detergent >> >> >> > > > > salesman. I don't expect we can build one. Plato's suggested >> >> >> > > > > technology was to train Guardians - I'd prefer something much >> >> >> > > > > less >> >> >> > > > > elitist and socially constructed. >> >> >> >> > > > > Currently, we don't even have reliable voice to text - but >> >> >> > > > > statistical >> >> >> > > > > engines are reliable in translation. There are many problems >> >> >> > > > > - not >> >> ... >> >> read more ยป > > -- > > > -- ( ) |_D Allan Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living. Of course I talk to myself, Sometimes I need expert advice.. --
