sorry I can not focus had an episode this morning.. Liked what you said Neil it is very true. Allan
On Sun, Jan 20, 2013 at 9:11 AM, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: > In the US there is a hidden party called the elitist party.. the > republican party since reagan have become nothing more that a puppet.. > that is whay you see the lack of cooperation between the parties .. > to be republican you have to be a hoarding rich.... sad to see but > true..sometimes I wonder if they have lo stall spirituality > ;o) Lost souls ...hmm don't know, I personally .don't want to be > there.the price is far to high. > Allan > > > > On Sun, Jan 20, 2013 at 4:01 AM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >> I have little doubt that is a likely, needed route Allan - we are >> currently back on the road to debt peonage. One can argue for this >> against capitalist and socialist outcomes. But why is there no >> political party standing for office on this basis? UK Labour Party >> candidates stood on issues like democratic foreign policy in 1920 and >> even some Nazis ran on 'free Eurasian labour market' tickets. There >> are people making this argument in pretty full terms, but there is no >> party to vote for in any of our countries. In the meantime, Goldman >> Sachs, JP Morgan and the rest are buying commodities to hoard, >> including food, through exchange traded funds licensed by our >> governments (SEC etc.) >> >> . >> >> On Jan 19, 10:45 am, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: >>> The only way I see an honest government is strictly control in >>> influence of corporations and spin doctors with all of their dealings >>> involving government being recorded both video and audio with these >>> being open to public scrutiny,, not just special commissions,, Also >>> corporation presidents with the board of directors need to serve >>> prison sentences when their companies break the law,, once convicted >>> no longer be able to act as advisers or hold the offices of >>> corporations.. ending all corporations for lawyers so the can no >>> longer hide.. >>> the enforcement of corporate need to be brought into effect instead of >>> letting them slide. >>> nasty huh... >>> Allan >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 9:57 AM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >>> > We call ourselves democracies - the classic was perhaps the DDR (East >>> > Germany), famous for strange athletes, Stasi and the Trabant. But >>> > shouldn't we expect the Doublespeak Allan? Most of us don't really >>> > want to be involved in politics - it's a bit like running the coffee >>> > fund in a school common room. Like Gabby I tend to vote Green - but >>> > this is really about registering my protest that the main parties are >>> > now scum. We could, as Andrew suggested, have a much less >>> > representative politics and make more decisions ourselves. In the UK >>> > we should already have decentralised from London and become much more >>> > electronic in base. It must be very easy for 'foreign powers' to >>> > infiltrate our main political parties and they are all stacked out >>> > with highly suspicious suit horses. There has long been no one for me >>> > to vote for. We need revolutionary ideas about the system and I don't >>> > mean bombs, capes, dubious mustaches and a "temporary" dictatorship of >>> > the proles. This is why I think radical change in our understanding >>> > and then technology of argument might help. You astutely note we >>> > don't have any real democracies - but were earlier clinging to the >>> > notion of voting involving argument - I'm saying that ain't 'real' >>> > either. >>> >>> > On 19 Jan, 07:52, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >> I don't see how you can call any government a democracy .. the USA is >>> >> a republic and I do not see how you can call any government when >>> >> leadership keep palling around with the wealth chasing the golden >>> >> calf. >>> >> Allan >>> >>> >> On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 1:21 AM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >> > Computing has brought about changes in maths on grounds of speed in >>> >> > calculation that humans can't achieve in lifetimes - patterns appear >>> >> > in massive iterations we simply don't have time to do. I don't have >>> >> > much problem with this if, say, it lets us devise flight plans to >>> >> > Mars. They are increasingly used to have information first, perhaps >>> >> > like someone using a telescope to spot which ship is coming home in >>> >> > order to unload what stock of goods one has while prices are still >>> >> > high before its goods are docked. I doubt the entire use of the >>> >> > technology in economics. In some areas of science we are not sure >>> >> > what the computers are telling us and they appear to be "thinking".I >>> >> > have taught many people to drive spreadsheets and databases - though >>> >> > few really learn to manipulate new questions into them or design >>> >> > useful reporting from them. >>> >> > Rigs hits one of the nails of democracy on the head and Andrew drives >>> >> > in another. Unlike Gabby I tend to view faith as a weakness. The >>> >> > vinegar and oil approach is probably cast as incommensurability in >>> >> > philosophy - though combined as salad dressing Andrew's meat is my >>> >> > poison. I suspect much allegedly incommensurate is merely >>> >> > incompatible due to definition. Chemists could no doubt produce a >>> >> > solution with both oil and vinegar in it. Wiles' solution to Fermat's >>> >> > last theorem bridges modular and elliptic equations and Sneed and >>> >> > Ludwig have used set theory to show compatibility between older and >>> >> > modern physics (scientists mostly believed this anyway). >>> >>> >> > The question is whether there is something we can apply to the sad >>> >> > state of democracy that keeps the egalitarianism better than our very >>> >> > peculiar voting systems. If we had an "argument machine" we might be >>> >> > able t get past Crusade/Jihad, Sunni/Shia, Catholic/Protestant, Hindi/ >>> >> > Muslim and so on - and get into what is common exploitation on all >>> >> > sides - the human aspects rigs points out - and to change to the more >>> >> > positive ones. I may even share (something like) Gabby's >>> >> > 'frustration' with agnostics - though an explication of this n both >>> >> > sides would be long. >>> >>> >> > This is tough territory - and very unlike the spiv Blair uttering >>> >> > 'education, education, education' (something I first heard in East >>> >> > Germany) and the ease with which we are gulled by such blandishments >>> >> > with no thought of how we can actually create graduate jobs 50:50 and >>> >> > what such a society would be. We need to know more about what buttons >>> >> > the likes of Blair and adverts push. I suspect part of the answer >>> >> > would be the creation of technology to support a level playing field - >>> >> > but as I write this I'm fairly sure we are being warmed up for war >>> >> > (it's a bit like Jung's dream). >>> >>> >> > On Jan 18, 11:11 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >> >> Vinegar and oil are prime reasons I don't order salad when out - hate >>> >> >> them both! I agree entirely with Gabby on "political argument" and >>> >> >> would say in addition academic argument can be as bad and the majority >>> >> >> of it is. When asked most people say they vote on the economy - when >>> >> >> further asked what the economy is they are clueless. One of us at >>> >> >> least will need a steel claw to make a success of Al's lair and our >>> >> >> 'freedom through world domination' scheme. >>> >>> >> >> On Jan 18, 3:46 pm, andrew vecsey <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> >> >> > Faith and reason, like vinegar and oil (my favorite salad dressing) >>> >> >> > ,go >>> >> >> > together and complement each other really well. Like the bible >>> >> >> > teaches, the >>> >> >> > knowledge of good and evil or technology is a double edged sword. >>> >> >> > You can >>> >> >> > not have one without the other. Like playing with matches, it is not >>> >> >> > recommended for children. As for teaching morals, I do not think it >>> >> >> > can be >>> >> >> > taught by teachers. Education and democracy if used morally can and >>> >> >> > does >>> >> >> > fill empty bellies.I agree with you Rigs about democracy. Democracy >>> >> >> > as we >>> >> >> > have it in all democratic countries (except Switzerland) lasts only >>> >> >> > for a >>> >> >> > day every 4 or 5 years when we elect representatives with >>> >> >> > meaningless >>> >> >> > promises to represent us. >>> >>> >> >> > On Friday, January 18, 2013 12:54:01 PM UTC+1, rigs wrote: >>> >>> >> >> > > Faith and Reason are like vinegar and oil. The Enlightenment has >>> >> >> > > brought us hence- the new Dark Ages? Technology is not a solution >>> >> >> > > because it can be corrupted. I have much in common with a Roman >>> >> >> > > matron >>> >> >> > > of the 4th C. as I watch/read of the new barbarians. My modern >>> >> >> > > conveniences are simply mechanical slaves. It does little good to >>> >> >> > > teach ethics/morals when other parts of our supposed united world >>> >> >> > > are >>> >> >> > > not in sync. Education/democracy will not fill an empty belly or >>> >> >> > > replenish wasted croplands and raw materials. Throwing money at >>> >> >> > > unstable countries will not rescue us or them (Egypt) nor will >>> >> >> > > allowing disasters to take their course win us friends (Syria). >>> >> >> > > Democracy has become a bloated centralized authority so the >>> >> >> > > political >>> >> >> > > differences are meaningless. The patterns of human history have >>> >> >> > > changed very little, unfortunately- it still remains about greed, >>> >> >> > > power and hubris. >>> >>> >> >> > > On Jan 17, 7:59 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >> >> > > > Kaggle is also up and running, apparently producing better than >>> >> >> > > > expert >>> >> >> > > > results from data crunching. The project, whether a Tower of >>> >> >> > > > Babel >>> >> >> > > > confronting god or not, is underway. >>> >>> >> >> > > > On Jan 18, 12:22 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> >> >> > > > > At last we discover the lair from which you intend to launch >>> >> >> > > > > 'Dr No' >>> >> >> > > > > plans Al! >>> >>> >> >> > > > > One can argue that democracy already uses a 'non-argument >>> >> >> > > > > technology' >>> >> >> > > > > called voting. >>> >>> >> >> > > > > In many respects Allan is right on argument being about >>> >> >> > > > > reinforcing an >>> >> >> > > > > individual's point of view. >>> >>> >> >> > > > > Studies of the Internet show the most likely reaction to >>> >> >> > > > > facts is >>> >> >> > > > > backfire as people dig in on their original position. >>> >>> >> >> > > > > Does anyone know 'where' human decision-making takes place - >>> >> >> > > > > much >>> >> >> > > > > modern testing indicates it comes before anything rational >>> >> >> > > > > (the social >>> >> >> > > > > animal thesis). Adverts are highly irrational, political bull >>> >> >> > > > > simplistic and often not true - FDR matched others in >>> >> >> > > > > rhetoric on not >>> >> >> > > > > letting the English fight to the last American to get >>> >> >> > > > > elected. Would >>> >> >> > > > > any of us want to claim how WW2 came about - I suspect not - >>> >> >> > > > > but even >>> >> >> > > > > what we might know is likely more factual than those who >>> >> >> > > > > think the >>> >> >> > > > > Soviets were on the other side. Universal education hasn't >>> >> >> > > > > helped >>> >> >> > > > > much on fact bases in individuals. >>> >>> >> >> > > > > One has to suspect if we could build a bulldung detector it >>> >> >> > > > > wouldn't >>> >> >> > > > > switch off until after we shot the last politician and >>> >> >> > > > > detergent >>> >> >> > > > > salesman. I don't expect we can build one. Plato's suggested >>> >> >> > > > > technology was to train Guardians - I'd prefer something much >>> >> >> > > > > less >>> >> >> > > > > elitist and socially constructed. >>> >>> >> >> > > > > Currently, we don't even have reliable voice to text - but >>> >> >> > > > > statistical >>> >> >> > > > > engines are reliable in translation. There are many problems >>> >> >> > > > > - not >>> >>> ... >>> >>> read more ยป >> >> -- >> >> >> > > > > -- > ( > ) > |_D Allan > > Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living. > > Of course I talk to myself, > Sometimes I need expert advice.. -- ( ) |_D Allan Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living. Of course I talk to myself, Sometimes I need expert advice.. --
