I wasn't thinking you'd become a sociologist overnight - well not quite because we all are really. I've come across groups heavily into anthroposophy who believe we need new spiritual states to change practice. Norm rather implies social as a term. Our imagination works on shaken up memories to try and plot new future, though cognitive dissonance works they other way, moulding all evidence to a world-view network. It's tough as most people fear even expressing their beliefs.
On Sunday, 8 February 2015 21:33:07 UTC, Allan Heretic wrote: > > Actually I stumbled acrossed the quote. > My first impression of norm is where we are right now. We have the normal > way we respond to situations. We need to deviate to grow especially > spiritually. > How often are we trapped because we can not devaite our stand. > > تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين > Évitez; assassiner, le viol et l'esclavage des autres > Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others > > -----Original Message----- > From: archytas <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Sun, 08 Feb 2015 10:11 PM > Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Norm > > Norms are the means to achieve social action. If norms can thrive and > spread, they can also die out. We do witness sudden and unexpected change > of well-established patterns of behaviour. Smoking in public without asking > for permission is quickly becoming unacceptable, and only a few years ago > nobody would have worried about using gender-laden language. One would > expect inefficient norms (such as discriminatory norms against women and > minorities) to disappear more rapidly and with greater frequency than more > efficient ones. However, inefficiency is not a sufficient condition for a > norm's demise: instead, it is only a necessary condition. This can best be > seen by the study of corruption. There are many examples, past and present, > of uniformly corrupt societies. Corruption fosters huge social costs, but > costs—even when they take a society to the brink of collapse—are not enough > to generate an overhaul of the system (such as the current crisis). We > have long demonstrated that corruption can be an unstable equilibrium in a > fixed population. In more realistic settings, in which the population is > variable, a society can cycle between ‘honest’ and corrupt social norms, > without a single stable state. > > So how do we achieve new norms? Can we have norms within norms that > allow/encourage difference and adaptation to change. Biology does. > Religion, away from fundamentalists does too. RP rightly wants security. > Gabby might be seen as in creative tension between the same page and > radical deconstruction. Facil between anarchism and moralism. Allan owns > the coffee machine so I have to listen. Somewhere, individualism must come > in - but as an ideology this probably fails. Knowledge, if we could make > it more understandable as Andrew has often ventured, would help, as would > something like Bitcoin to break the normative control of money by banks. > Molly and the light could change norms - I'm much more materialist. Chris > would seem to advocate beer, but has to explain how he is sober enough to > have some great ideas. > > Tough question Allan and we should remember there are some norms we would > resist by force. > > On Sunday, February 8, 2015 at 8:22:12 PM UTC, Allan Heretic wrote: >> >> Very true. >> >> تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين >> Évitez; assassiner, le viol et l'esclavage des autres >> Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: archytas <[email protected]> >> To: [email protected] >> Sent: Sun, 08 Feb 2015 9:19 PM >> Subject: Mind's Eye Re: Norm >> >> Social norms can have positive benefits like welfare maximization and new >> ones also emerge through time >> >> On Sunday, February 8, 2015 at 8:05:53 PM UTC, archytas wrote: >>> >>> Basic biology. >>> >>> On Sunday, February 8, 2015 at 7:53:15 PM UTC, Allan Heretic wrote: >>>> >>>> Without devation from the norm progress is not possible. >>>> >>>> تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين >>>> Évitez; assassiner, le viol et l'esclavage des autres >>>> Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others >>> >>> -- >> >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> ""Minds Eye"" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > -- > > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > ""Minds Eye"" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
