Why are you insulting Molly by saying she is gone then? 2015-02-11 15:41 GMT+01:00 archytas <[email protected]>:
> Molly is the owner. I think I was once, until some tired night when I was > footling about. Now I list as manager. > > > On Wednesday, February 11, 2015 at 2:15:51 PM UTC, Gabby wrote: >> >> You could help to clarify the state of the arts here by telling us in >> plain English prose, what the real power relations here on "Minds Eye" are >> at the moment. Who is the owner? Who is/are the moderator(s)? >> >> 2015-02-11 14:41 GMT+01:00 archytas <[email protected]>: >> >>> Like a solicitor refusing to explain her bill.perhaps. >>> >>> >>> On Wednesday, February 11, 2015 at 1:16:25 PM UTC, Allan Heretic wrote: >>>> >>>> Nothing more than a point of reference. Life is far beyond delusion yet >>>> it would seem there is nothing but delusion. >>>> People can discuss it all they want. I am not adding more or going to >>>> explain my views on reality. >>>> >>>> تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين >>>> Évitez; assassiner, le viol et l'esclavage des autres >>>> Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: archytas <[email protected]> >>>> To: [email protected] >>>> Sent: Wed, 11 Feb 2015 2:11 PM >>>> Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Delusions >>>> >>>> So why say this in a discussion group Allan? Why should the rest of us >>>> expand anything? >>>> >>>> On Wednesday, February 11, 2015 at 12:59:24 PM UTC, Allan Heretic wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Delusions are easy to come by. In my life time I have Experienced >>>>> the Reality of God and the effect of one drop of water. >>>>> >>>>> No Tony I will not explain or expand. >>>>> >>>>> تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين >>>>> Évitez; assassiner, le viol et l'esclavage des autres >>>>> Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Molly <[email protected]> >>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>> Sent: Wed, 11 Feb 2015 12:54 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Delusions >>>>> >>>>> recognizing and examining our self delusions requires that we look >>>>> within us for answers, something most of us are not hardwired for as most >>>>> are extroverts. Most cultures do not support introspection and offer >>>>> mandates for action and group acceptance. Understanding our own delusions >>>>> means understanding our inner workings and we seem trained from the >>>>> beginning to turn away from such shenanigans. Understanding how our >>>>> communication patterns are used to force our will or view on others, how >>>>> our agendas are more important than relationships, how trust in the world, >>>>> ourselves, life (or lack of) effects us can all clear up delusion but I >>>>> rarely see anyone having a breakthrough like this. Instead, I see >>>>> everyone >>>>> grinding away on the same old tracks. >>>>> >>>>> For me, chaos and struggle around me sometimes builds to such a head >>>>> that I find myself needing to let go of any expectation or even vision of >>>>> what is to come next, take a deep breath, and continue. It has been a long >>>>> time since I entered the dark night of the soul, but find it eventually >>>>> comes if I don't do this as needed. In my life there is a harmony that I >>>>> feel more or less strongly depending on the day or sometimes the moment. >>>>> If >>>>> I can find my way back to this simple harmony, my experience in the world >>>>> is peaceful. I get weary of struggle, angst, anger, opposition although >>>>> have learned not to avoid any of it either. Delusion can come from a lack >>>>> of information or understanding, or incorrect info and understanding. So >>>>> what is the "correct" standard? The best answer for me has always come >>>>> internally. I've stopped expecting order in experience, but have notice a >>>>> coherence in its elements that mean more than cultural or group or >>>>> historic >>>>> norms or patterns. I define it in poetic terms and describe it as simple >>>>> harmony. You may call it delusion. For me it is quite clear. >>>>> >>>>> On Tuesday, February 10, 2015 at 7:35:54 PM UTC-5, archytas wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Francis Bacon classified the intellectual fallacies of his time under >>>>>> four headings which he called idols. He distinguished them as idols of >>>>>> the >>>>>> Tribe, idols of the e, idols of the Marketplace and idols of the Theatre. >>>>>> An idol is an image, in this case held in the mind, which receives >>>>>> veneration but is without substance in itself. Bacon did not regard idols >>>>>> as symbols, but rather as fixations. They expand a bit like this: >>>>>> >>>>>> 1. Tribe >>>>>> >>>>>> The example of desiring to see more order in the universe than is >>>>>> actually there is one of his examples of an idol of the tribe. He thinks >>>>>> that we all suffer from that one. >>>>>> >>>>>> 2. Cave >>>>>> >>>>>> An example of an idol of the cave (one of Bacon's examples) is that >>>>>> some minds are more drawn to new things and new ideas than they are to >>>>>> what >>>>>> has been around for a long time, while other minds are more drawn to >>>>>> "tradition" and "old school" ideas and ways than they are to newness. >>>>>> Bacon >>>>>> thinks we should become aware what our own tendency is so that we can >>>>>> make >>>>>> corrections for it. He hopes that by becoming aware of our own mind's >>>>>> tendencies toward loving novelty or tradition that we might be able to >>>>>> "correct" for them and then hopefully see things more clearly and truly. >>>>>> >>>>>> 3. Marketplace >>>>>> >>>>>> We often use words very loosely in common discourse. Bacon sees >>>>>> nothing wrong with that when we are just speaking ordinary language with >>>>>> friends and family. But, when it comes to trying to describe the world >>>>>> accurately and precisely, we should be aware of our tendency to use words >>>>>> loosely and should try to correct for it. When we are trying to speak >>>>>> precisely we should probably not say things like "The mountain is out >>>>>> today" (anyone outside of the Puget Sound area wouldn't have a clue what >>>>>> this means); or "The sun went under a cloud" (the sun did not go >>>>>> anywhere, >>>>>> let along underneath something); or "The sun came up this morning" (the >>>>>> earth actually just rotated). None of those sentences is precisely true, >>>>>> and if we use language imprecisely like this it can sometimes >>>>>> accidentally >>>>>> lead to huge misapprehensions about the world. Bacon thinks this misuse >>>>>> of >>>>>> words and language causes far more problems than we realize. >>>>>> >>>>>> 4. Theatre >>>>>> >>>>>> If you can think of someone you know who has recently bought into a >>>>>> whole new religion or philosophy or psychology, you can probably see how >>>>>> they have suddenly come to interpret everything in the universe according >>>>>> to their new world view. That world view has become the new lens through >>>>>> which they perceive and interpret everything in their world. What Bacon >>>>>> says, though, is that we all do this. We all interpret the world through >>>>>> the lens of our own little world view. It's just easier to see other >>>>>> people >>>>>> doing it than it is to see ourselves doing it. Bacon thinks we should >>>>>> become aware of how these world views shape and distort our own >>>>>> perceptions >>>>>> of the world so that we might be able to correct for it a bit. >>>>>> >>>>>> This is old work. My questions are about how we recognise the >>>>>> 'second head' as a delusion yet move hardly at all on obvious political >>>>>> delusions like economics, votes counting, social care, public ignorance >>>>>> and >>>>>> the making invisible of many social issues. For me, deep questions on >>>>>> self >>>>>> are involved. The internet self is unlikely to be, as Tony says, the >>>>>> same >>>>>> as the 'real'one - but then we have know for much longer than the >>>>>> internet >>>>>> people don't say the same things in different contexts. In fact the man >>>>>> or >>>>>> woman in the bar often looks totally different the morning after, let >>>>>> alone >>>>>> what the politician says in a speech compared with when she is with her >>>>>> backroom boys in the spin room. >>>>>> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tuesday, February 10, 2015 at 10:17:04 PM UTC, archytas wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> At least with my knowledge of delusions I can imagine certain people >>>>>>> growing a second head overnight and shooting the wrong spare. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tuesday, February 10, 2015 at 10:11:09 PM UTC, archytas wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That seems to run to form Gabby. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Tuesday, February 10, 2015 at 10:06:43 PM UTC, Gabby wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Facil picked up your question and gave his answer, I agreed and >>>>>>>>> then came Allan barking at Facil and I told Allan to watch his tongue >>>>>>>>> or >>>>>>>>> leave to his own thread. Only then did you enter the group timeline to >>>>>>>>> start your big daddy has come home show. Now tell me what my deceitful >>>>>>>>> intent was ... Or better, tell me tomorrow, I'm off for today. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Am Dienstag, 10. Februar 2015 schrieb archytas : >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The only people I meet like that tend to be online students >>>>>>>>>> Tony. We use Skype video conferencing for a few sessions, so have >>>>>>>>>> actually >>>>>>>>>> seen each other. I'm quieter than people imagine, though none have >>>>>>>>>> yet >>>>>>>>>> said 'uglier'. I'm very prone to catch whatever bugs go around >>>>>>>>>> university >>>>>>>>>> environments too, so rather like electronic distance. With >>>>>>>>>> colleagues, the >>>>>>>>>> situation is we know a lot more about each other than most in online >>>>>>>>>> encounters. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> My version has 'confusion' written through it. I say something, >>>>>>>>>> Gabby takes it another way, or knows what I intended and chooses >>>>>>>>>> another >>>>>>>>>> slant for whatever reason. Online, I assume she has a sense of >>>>>>>>>> humour and >>>>>>>>>> a good turn with words. Deception is not part of this in the first >>>>>>>>>> place. >>>>>>>>>> Just guesses with less risk than so called reality. I suppose the >>>>>>>>>> classic >>>>>>>>>> online deceiver is the groomer - where the intent is to set up and >>>>>>>>>> image >>>>>>>>>> and then meet the victim. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, February 10, 2015 at 7:54:18 PM UTC, facilitator >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, February 10, 2015 at 2:11:33 PM UTC-5, archytas >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The delusion that we are what we project is interesting Tony. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> "We claim to be what we project". Your version allows for >>>>>>>>>>> reality mine allows for dishonesty. I think most people want to >>>>>>>>>>> project a >>>>>>>>>>> filtered image of themselves enough so that if we ever meet people >>>>>>>>>>> who >>>>>>>>>>> we've only conversed with online we become slightly astonished how >>>>>>>>>>> different they appear and act in "real life". >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic >>>>>>>>>> in the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/minds-eye/2_ICOWzarWY/unsu >>>>>>>>>> bscribe. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email >>>>>>>>>> to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> --- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> --- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> -- >>> >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >>> Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/ >>> topic/minds-eye/2_ICOWzarWY/unsubscribe. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>> [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> -- > > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the > Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/minds-eye/2_ICOWzarWY/unsubscribe. > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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