I am not worried about the machines. There is the simple reason the resources are drained at a rate not sustainable
تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others -----Original Message----- From: archytas <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tue, 10 Mar 2015 1:53 AM Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Rule By Machine We might already be living under the tyranny of our gene machines RP. On Tuesday, 10 March 2015 00:22:49 UTC, RP Singh wrote: > > As long as man is sane he will not destroy humanity though he might loot > it for self aggrandizement, But some contribution to the human pool will > remain, We can't be that sure with machines and they must always remain > subservient to us otherwise we will be at risk to lose the very freedom for > which we are making so much effort. Again, my contention is know your > nature and potential before you make machines that surpass our intelligence > because cold and calculating freaks might not be loyal to us, rather live > in tyranny of humans than under the rule of heartless machines. > > On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 5:26 AM, frantheman <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> I have always regarded Ursula Le Guin's *The Dispossessed >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dispossessed> *as one of the greatest >> SF novels ever written. In her depiction of the anarchist society of >> Annares, the whole administration of practical organisation is carried out >> by computers. This serves to take a major component of the exercise of >> power out of the area of human relations. >> >> "Rule" is basically the exercise of power. The will to power seems to be >> one of the strongest human urges - indeed, it's wider than just human - >> take the constant jostling for rank and status in a wolf-pack, for example. >> I suspect most of those of us involved here in this forum are freaks as we >> don't seem to possess much of it. Personally I don't get it, but I must >> acknowledge that it seems to be (and always has been) an immensely strong >> driving force for a lot of people. >> >> Our concepts of freedom and autonomy make my initial reaction to the idea >> of "rule by machine" instinctively and immediately suspicious. But then, on >> reflection, I'm already being "ruled" by all sorts of shadowy >> people/groups/elites, who daily make all sorts of decisions which have huge >> effects on the life I live and who certainly don't have an sense of my >> well-being in mind (apart from that portion of my material assets which is >> part of a pension fund/savings/investment fund/life insurance - which then >> has the notionally privileged status of being the object of >> shareholder-value). Could machines fuck things up any worse than humans do >> at the moment? >> >> I wonder if there aren't some deep neurotic guilt/fear things at work >> here. There's the old story of the Sorcerer's Apprentice, who Goethe has >> despairingly calling out; "Herr, die Noth ist groß! Die ich rief, die >> Geister, Werd’ ich nun nicht los. [Master, I'm in deep shit here! I can't >> get rid of the fucking spirits I summoned]." Or the idea that when the >> Singularity <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity> comes, >> the first things the machine intelligences will do is get rid of us for >> being hopelessly corrupt and imperfect. >> >> It's the feeling that we're giving over control to something else - >> something we may try to programme so that it is benevolent towards us - but >> where there are no guarantees. But what guarantees do we have right now? >> And who controls? >> >> >> Am Montag, 9. März 2015 08:44:34 UTC+1 schrieb archytas: >>> >>> Human leadership is corrupt. The history is clear. We form empires of >>> violence. At the start of WW1, about 1911 with the Italian invasion of >>> part of the declining Ottoman Empire, we had a population the planet could >>> manage, new technologies that could have released us from work serfdom and >>> the potential to grow green and surpass our libidinal-violent biology. >>> Instead we went to war and have over-populated like a bacterial colony >>> poisoning itself. This war to end all war led to another one, largely >>> about exhausting the Wehrmacht on Soviet forces. I have no idea how these >>> wars started, interesting given how much education I've had. The Americans >>> won and everyone else lost, but Americans generally wanted no part of the >>> stuff. Various fables on cause make no sense. Much can be said on this, >>> yet we evade the fairly obvious reality that human society is generally >>> dire. About 250,000 of the 400,000 inhabitants of the zenith of the >>> Athenian democracy were slaves, and slaving was the major Black Sea >>> industry from then until 1870. >>> >>> Machines could help us get over ourselves and establish a rational >>> society. This would be a rebellion to remove the allocation class that >>> owns nearly everything a monetary value can be put on. We would embody >>> knowledge in the machines (we already do) and rely on their genuine >>> rationality instead of our faux version, corrupted by our libidinal-violent >>> biology. Most people are very scared of intelligent machines and rather >>> like the idea humans are superior because we can remove their plugs. We >>> worry they will destroy us in a world with 8,000 nuclear weapons in safe >>> human hands that are not problematic. Genghis Khan killed about a third of >>> his known world's population. >>> >>> Why do we hate machines so much? Do we fear their rationality shames >>> us? We are all now chronically ignorant compared with extra-somatic >>> databases. Maybe we fear control by machines operating in the interests of >>> a small group or police state - yet this 'machine' is already in place as a >>> socio-technical human endeavor as the allocation class in real power we >>> can't vote out. We could change a lot if we weren't so naff about this. >>> Anyone here even think about it? >>> >>> In terms of data, what we chatter about, changes as data if we are not >>> actually interested in large-scale human change. >>> >> -- >> >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> ""Minds Eye"" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
