Russian Facilitator
On Tuesday, March 10, 2015 at 9:18:16 AM UTC, Allan Heretic wrote: > > RP Neil asked the question and brought up the Russian soul. I had to look > up what he was saying and wiki has an excellent and interesting > explanation. Well worth reading and it is not a book. > The russian soul is semi defined as what it characteristics are as i think > about what i have written within the group I have said much the same > things. That is really strange because I have never heard it before and yet > have reached the same answers.. only they were reached before this body's > time. I keep telling you Tony I am not an old man.. > > When forget the difference or at least ignore them it really becomes > amazing the similarities that does exist.. several conclusions can be > reached whether they are right or not is another question. > > تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين > Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others > > -----Original Message----- > From: RP Singh <[email protected]> > To: Minds Eye <[email protected]> > Sent: Tue, 10 Mar 2015 9:56 AM > Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Rule By Machine > > Allan, I thought you were American. > > On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 12:01 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > >> The Hindu beliefs say you live for ever.. as does my Russian soul. >> >> تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين >> Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: RP Singh <[email protected]> >> To: Minds Eye <[email protected]> >> Sent: Tue, 10 Mar 2015 4:55 AM >> Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Rule By Machine >> >> The idea of death just drives the shit out of us, the survival instinct >> is that strong. That is the reason for our belief in souls, after-life, >> etc. We just want to live for ever. >> >> On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 7:33 AM, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> We are biological organisms, Neil, and will remain thus. The future >>> would either belong to us with us as the drivers and the controllers or to >>> the machines. It would be a case of biological supremacy or robottical >>> supremacy. In the end there would be doomsday and we together with machines >>> and the universe would be annihilated by the Supreme force which is neither >>> machine nor human. It is just a discussion between the few us and I don't >>> think it would ever reach the ears of those who make policies in this world >>> and yet not superfluous as it is a good exercise of the brain muscle, is it >>> not, Neil? >>> >>> On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 7:08 AM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> We are already becoming useless appendages to the bosses. Once robots >>>> can do the work, the bosses will dispose of us. If the machines became >>>> Terminators, they would only be doing what humans have done to countless >>>> species. We might, of course RP, become the machines. >>>> >>>> The women aren't in this thread - is this a boy's toys thing? >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tuesday, March 10, 2015 at 1:20:35 AM UTC, RP Singh wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Machines might not even want us, Neil. We might be useless appendage >>>>> to them and might be exterminated. >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 6:23 AM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> We might already be living under the tyranny of our gene machines RP. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tuesday, 10 March 2015 00:22:49 UTC, RP Singh wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As long as man is sane he will not destroy humanity though he might >>>>>>> loot it for self aggrandizement, But some contribution to the human >>>>>>> pool >>>>>>> will remain, We can't be that sure with machines and they must always >>>>>>> remain subservient to us otherwise we will be at risk to lose the very >>>>>>> freedom for which we are making so much effort. Again, my contention is >>>>>>> know your nature and potential before you make machines that surpass >>>>>>> our >>>>>>> intelligence because cold and calculating freaks might not be loyal to >>>>>>> us, >>>>>>> rather live in tyranny of humans than under the rule of heartless >>>>>>> machines. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 5:26 AM, frantheman <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have always regarded Ursula Le Guin's *The Dispossessed >>>>>>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dispossessed> *as one of the >>>>>>>> greatest SF novels ever written. In her depiction of the anarchist >>>>>>>> society >>>>>>>> of Annares, the whole administration of practical organisation is >>>>>>>> carried >>>>>>>> out by computers. This serves to take a major component of the >>>>>>>> exercise of >>>>>>>> power out of the area of human relations. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "Rule" is basically the exercise of power. The will to power seems >>>>>>>> to be one of the strongest human urges - indeed, it's wider than just >>>>>>>> human >>>>>>>> - take the constant jostling for rank and status in a wolf-pack, for >>>>>>>> example. I suspect most of those of us involved here in this forum are >>>>>>>> freaks as we don't seem to possess much of it. Personally I don't get >>>>>>>> it, >>>>>>>> but I must acknowledge that it seems to be (and always has been) an >>>>>>>> immensely strong driving force for a lot of people. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Our concepts of freedom and autonomy make my initial reaction to >>>>>>>> the idea of "rule by machine" instinctively and immediately >>>>>>>> suspicious. But >>>>>>>> then, on reflection, I'm already being "ruled" by all sorts of shadowy >>>>>>>> people/groups/elites, who daily make all sorts of decisions which have >>>>>>>> huge >>>>>>>> effects on the life I live and who certainly don't have an sense of my >>>>>>>> well-being in mind (apart from that portion of my material assets >>>>>>>> which is >>>>>>>> part of a pension fund/savings/investment fund/life insurance - which >>>>>>>> then >>>>>>>> has the notionally privileged status of being the object of >>>>>>>> shareholder-value). Could machines fuck things up any worse than >>>>>>>> humans do >>>>>>>> at the moment? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I wonder if there aren't some deep neurotic guilt/fear things at >>>>>>>> work here. There's the old story of the Sorcerer's Apprentice, who >>>>>>>> Goethe >>>>>>>> has despairingly calling out; "Herr, die Noth ist groß! Die ich rief, >>>>>>>> die >>>>>>>> Geister, Werd’ ich nun nicht los. [Master, I'm in deep shit here! I >>>>>>>> can't >>>>>>>> get rid of the fucking spirits I summoned]." Or the idea that when the >>>>>>>> Singularity >>>>>>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity> comes, >>>>>>>> the first things the machine intelligences will do is get rid of us >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> being hopelessly corrupt and imperfect. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It's the feeling that we're giving over control to something else - >>>>>>>> something we may try to programme so that it is benevolent towards us >>>>>>>> - but >>>>>>>> where there are no guarantees. But what guarantees do we have right >>>>>>>> now? >>>>>>>> And who controls? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Am Montag, 9. März 2015 08:44:34 UTC+1 schrieb archytas: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Human leadership is corrupt. The history is clear. We form >>>>>>>>> empires of violence. At the start of WW1, about 1911 with the >>>>>>>>> Italian >>>>>>>>> invasion of part of the declining Ottoman Empire, we had a population >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> planet could manage, new technologies that could have released us >>>>>>>>> from work >>>>>>>>> serfdom and the potential to grow green and surpass our >>>>>>>>> libidinal-violent >>>>>>>>> biology. Instead we went to war and have over-populated like a >>>>>>>>> bacterial >>>>>>>>> colony poisoning itself. This war to end all war led to another one, >>>>>>>>> largely about exhausting the Wehrmacht on Soviet forces. I have no >>>>>>>>> idea >>>>>>>>> how these wars started, interesting given how much education I've >>>>>>>>> had. The >>>>>>>>> Americans won and everyone else lost, but Americans generally wanted >>>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>>> part of the stuff. Various fables on cause make no sense. Much can >>>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>>> said on this, yet we evade the fairly obvious reality that human >>>>>>>>> society is >>>>>>>>> generally dire. About 250,000 of the 400,000 inhabitants of the >>>>>>>>> zenith of >>>>>>>>> the Athenian democracy were slaves, and slaving was the major Black >>>>>>>>> Sea >>>>>>>>> industry from then until 1870. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Machines could help us get over ourselves and establish a rational >>>>>>>>> society. This would be a rebellion to remove the allocation class >>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>> owns nearly everything a monetary value can be put on. We would >>>>>>>>> embody >>>>>>>>> knowledge in the machines (we already do) and rely on their genuine >>>>>>>>> rationality instead of our faux version, corrupted by our >>>>>>>>> libidinal-violent >>>>>>>>> biology. Most people are very scared of intelligent machines and >>>>>>>>> rather >>>>>>>>> like the idea humans are superior because we can remove their plugs. >>>>>>>>> We >>>>>>>>> worry they will destroy us in a world with 8,000 nuclear weapons in >>>>>>>>> safe >>>>>>>>> human hands that are not problematic. Genghis Khan killed about a >>>>>>>>> third of >>>>>>>>> his known world's population. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Why do we hate machines so much? Do we fear their rationality >>>>>>>>> shames us? We are all now chronically ignorant compared with >>>>>>>>> extra-somatic >>>>>>>>> databases. Maybe we fear control by machines operating in the >>>>>>>>> interests of >>>>>>>>> a small group or police state - yet this 'machine' is already in >>>>>>>>> place as a >>>>>>>>> socio-technical human endeavor as the allocation class in real power >>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>> can't vote out. We could change a lot if we weren't so naff about >>>>>>>>> this. >>>>>>>>> Anyone here even think about it? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> In terms of data, what we chatter about, changes as data if we are >>>>>>>>> not actually interested in large-scale human change. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> --- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>> >>>> --- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> >>> >> -- >> >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> ""Minds Eye"" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> ""Minds Eye"" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- > > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > ""Minds Eye"" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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