On Tuesday, March 10, 2015 at 9:18:16 AM UTC, Allan Heretic wrote:
>
> RP Neil asked the question and brought up the Russian soul. I had to look
> up what he was saying and wiki has an excellent and interesting
> explanation. Well worth reading and it is not a book.
> The russian soul is semi defined as what it characteristics are as i think
> about what i have written within the group I have said much the same
> things. That is really strange because I have never heard it before and yet
> have reached the same answers.. only they were reached before this body's
> time. I keep telling you Tony I am not an old man..
>
> When forget the difference or at least ignore them it really becomes
> amazing the similarities that does exist.. several conclusions can be
> reached whether they are right or not is another question.
>
> تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين
> Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: RP Singh <[email protected]>
> To: Minds Eye <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tue, 10 Mar 2015 9:56 AM
> Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Rule By Machine
>
> Allan, I thought you were American.
>
> On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 12:01 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> The Hindu beliefs say you live for ever.. as does my Russian soul.
>>
>> تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين
>> Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: RP Singh <[email protected]>
>> To: Minds Eye <[email protected]>
>> Sent: Tue, 10 Mar 2015 4:55 AM
>> Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Rule By Machine
>>
>> The idea of death just drives the shit out of us, the survival instinct
>> is that strong. That is the reason for our belief in souls, after-life,
>> etc. We just want to live for ever.
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 7:33 AM, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> We are biological organisms, Neil, and will remain thus. The future
>>> would either belong to us with us as the drivers and the controllers or to
>>> the machines. It would be a case of biological supremacy or robottical
>>> supremacy. In the end there would be doomsday and we together with machines
>>> and the universe would be annihilated by the Supreme force which is neither
>>> machine nor human. It is just a discussion between the few us and I don't
>>> think it would ever reach the ears of those who make policies in this world
>>> and yet not superfluous as it is a good exercise of the brain muscle, is it
>>> not, Neil?
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 7:08 AM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> We are already becoming useless appendages to the bosses. Once robots
>>>> can do the work, the bosses will dispose of us. If the machines became
>>>> Terminators, they would only be doing what humans have done to countless
>>>> species. We might, of course RP, become the machines.
>>>>
>>>> The women aren't in this thread - is this a boy's toys thing?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, March 10, 2015 at 1:20:35 AM UTC, RP Singh wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Machines might not even want us, Neil. We might be useless appendage
>>>>> to them and might be exterminated.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 6:23 AM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> We might already be living under the tyranny of our gene machines RP.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tuesday, 10 March 2015 00:22:49 UTC, RP Singh wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As long as man is sane he will not destroy humanity though he might
>>>>>>> loot it for self aggrandizement, But some contribution to the human
>>>>>>> pool
>>>>>>> will remain, We can't be that sure with machines and they must always
>>>>>>> remain subservient to us otherwise we will be at risk to lose the very
>>>>>>> freedom for which we are making so much effort. Again, my contention is
>>>>>>> know your nature and potential before you make machines that surpass
>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>> intelligence because cold and calculating freaks might not be loyal to
>>>>>>> us,
>>>>>>> rather live in tyranny of humans than under the rule of heartless
>>>>>>> machines.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 5:26 AM, frantheman <[email protected]>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have always regarded Ursula Le Guin's *The Dispossessed
>>>>>>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dispossessed> *as one of the
>>>>>>>> greatest SF novels ever written. In her depiction of the anarchist
>>>>>>>> society
>>>>>>>> of Annares, the whole administration of practical organisation is
>>>>>>>> carried
>>>>>>>> out by computers. This serves to take a major component of the
>>>>>>>> exercise of
>>>>>>>> power out of the area of human relations.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Rule" is basically the exercise of power. The will to power seems
>>>>>>>> to be one of the strongest human urges - indeed, it's wider than just
>>>>>>>> human
>>>>>>>> - take the constant jostling for rank and status in a wolf-pack, for
>>>>>>>> example. I suspect most of those of us involved here in this forum are
>>>>>>>> freaks as we don't seem to possess much of it. Personally I don't get
>>>>>>>> it,
>>>>>>>> but I must acknowledge that it seems to be (and always has been) an
>>>>>>>> immensely strong driving force for a lot of people.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Our concepts of freedom and autonomy make my initial reaction to
>>>>>>>> the idea of "rule by machine" instinctively and immediately
>>>>>>>> suspicious. But
>>>>>>>> then, on reflection, I'm already being "ruled" by all sorts of shadowy
>>>>>>>> people/groups/elites, who daily make all sorts of decisions which have
>>>>>>>> huge
>>>>>>>> effects on the life I live and who certainly don't have an sense of my
>>>>>>>> well-being in mind (apart from that portion of my material assets
>>>>>>>> which is
>>>>>>>> part of a pension fund/savings/investment fund/life insurance - which
>>>>>>>> then
>>>>>>>> has the notionally privileged status of being the object of
>>>>>>>> shareholder-value). Could machines fuck things up any worse than
>>>>>>>> humans do
>>>>>>>> at the moment?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I wonder if there aren't some deep neurotic guilt/fear things at
>>>>>>>> work here. There's the old story of the Sorcerer's Apprentice, who
>>>>>>>> Goethe
>>>>>>>> has despairingly calling out; "Herr, die Noth ist groß! Die ich rief,
>>>>>>>> die
>>>>>>>> Geister, Werd’ ich nun nicht los. [Master, I'm in deep shit here! I
>>>>>>>> can't
>>>>>>>> get rid of the fucking spirits I summoned]." Or the idea that when the
>>>>>>>> Singularity
>>>>>>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity> comes,
>>>>>>>> the first things the machine intelligences will do is get rid of us
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> being hopelessly corrupt and imperfect.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's the feeling that we're giving over control to something else -
>>>>>>>> something we may try to programme so that it is benevolent towards us
>>>>>>>> - but
>>>>>>>> where there are no guarantees. But what guarantees do we have right
>>>>>>>> now?
>>>>>>>> And who controls?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Am Montag, 9. März 2015 08:44:34 UTC+1 schrieb archytas:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Human leadership is corrupt. The history is clear. We form
>>>>>>>>> empires of violence. At the start of WW1, about 1911 with the
>>>>>>>>> Italian
>>>>>>>>> invasion of part of the declining Ottoman Empire, we had a population
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> planet could manage, new technologies that could have released us
>>>>>>>>> from work
>>>>>>>>> serfdom and the potential to grow green and surpass our
>>>>>>>>> libidinal-violent
>>>>>>>>> biology. Instead we went to war and have over-populated like a
>>>>>>>>> bacterial
>>>>>>>>> colony poisoning itself. This war to end all war led to another one,
>>>>>>>>> largely about exhausting the Wehrmacht on Soviet forces. I have no
>>>>>>>>> idea
>>>>>>>>> how these wars started, interesting given how much education I've
>>>>>>>>> had. The
>>>>>>>>> Americans won and everyone else lost, but Americans generally wanted
>>>>>>>>> no
>>>>>>>>> part of the stuff. Various fables on cause make no sense. Much can
>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>> said on this, yet we evade the fairly obvious reality that human
>>>>>>>>> society is
>>>>>>>>> generally dire. About 250,000 of the 400,000 inhabitants of the
>>>>>>>>> zenith of
>>>>>>>>> the Athenian democracy were slaves, and slaving was the major Black
>>>>>>>>> Sea
>>>>>>>>> industry from then until 1870.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Machines could help us get over ourselves and establish a rational
>>>>>>>>> society. This would be a rebellion to remove the allocation class
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> owns nearly everything a monetary value can be put on. We would
>>>>>>>>> embody
>>>>>>>>> knowledge in the machines (we already do) and rely on their genuine
>>>>>>>>> rationality instead of our faux version, corrupted by our
>>>>>>>>> libidinal-violent
>>>>>>>>> biology. Most people are very scared of intelligent machines and
>>>>>>>>> rather
>>>>>>>>> like the idea humans are superior because we can remove their plugs.
>>>>>>>>> We
>>>>>>>>> worry they will destroy us in a world with 8,000 nuclear weapons in
>>>>>>>>> safe
>>>>>>>>> human hands that are not problematic. Genghis Khan killed about a
>>>>>>>>> third of
>>>>>>>>> his known world's population.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Why do we hate machines so much? Do we fear their rationality
>>>>>>>>> shames us? We are all now chronically ignorant compared with
>>>>>>>>> extra-somatic
>>>>>>>>> databases. Maybe we fear control by machines operating in the
>>>>>>>>> interests of
>>>>>>>>> a small group or police state - yet this 'machine' is already in
>>>>>>>>> place as a
>>>>>>>>> socio-technical human endeavor as the allocation class in real power
>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>> can't vote out. We could change a lot if we weren't so naff about
>>>>>>>>> this.
>>>>>>>>> Anyone here even think about it?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In terms of data, what we chatter about, changes as data if we are
>>>>>>>>> not actually interested in large-scale human change.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected].
>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>>>>> send an email to [email protected].
>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>>> an email to [email protected].
>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>> --
>>
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> ""Minds Eye"" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to [email protected].
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>> --
>>
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> ""Minds Eye"" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to [email protected].
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>
> --
>
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> ""Minds Eye"" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to [email protected].
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>
--
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
""Minds Eye"" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
to [email protected].
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
