Is that enough soul to get you focused Allan? On Tuesday, March 10, 2015 at 11:34:41 AM UTC, archytas wrote: > > And here is another on Russian Soul, in which Gabby becomes grateful to > Allan for being a Zombie. Turns out we need the Zombies to kill the > machines. The same people do a soul killer too.. > http://roberthoodwriter.com/index.php/zombies-vs-robots-soul-killer/ > > > <https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-rib-t8ndffE/VP7WnMGFRCI/AAAAAAAAAFY/RIzBnebizrs/s1600/Soul-Killer-illo-by-Mike-Dubisch.jpg> > > > On Tuesday, March 10, 2015 at 11:24:21 AM UTC, archytas wrote: >> >> Here's one for the ladies >> >> You could build us a pictorial feast on soul Allan. Though pectoral >> might be more 'in' these days. If anyone is wondering about these >> pictures, I'm in free play mode on 'rules'. Part of AI language is always >> concerned with reception. So which of these photos most aptly describes >> what we have been telling us all these years or not as Gabby has it? >> >> On Tuesday, March 10, 2015 at 11:14:52 AM UTC, archytas wrote: >>> >>> I don't know if this one is allowable under the rules, though it comes >>> from an exhibition on the 'Russian Soul' >>> >>> >>> Apparently the 'mysterious Russian soul' is what attracts us men. >>> >>> On Tuesday, March 10, 2015 at 9:18:16 AM UTC, Allan Heretic wrote: >>>> >>>> RP Neil asked the question and brought up the Russian soul. I had to >>>> look up what he was saying and wiki has an excellent and interesting >>>> explanation. Well worth reading and it is not a book. >>>> The russian soul is semi defined as what it characteristics are as i >>>> think about what i have written within the group I have said much the same >>>> things. That is really strange because I have never heard it before and >>>> yet >>>> have reached the same answers.. only they were reached before this body's >>>> time. I keep telling you Tony I am not an old man.. >>>> >>>> When forget the difference or at least ignore them it really becomes >>>> amazing the similarities that does exist.. several conclusions can be >>>> reached whether they are right or not is another question. >>>> >>>> تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين >>>> Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: RP Singh <[email protected]> >>>> To: Minds Eye <[email protected]> >>>> Sent: Tue, 10 Mar 2015 9:56 AM >>>> Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Rule By Machine >>>> >>>> Allan, I thought you were American. >>>> >>>> On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 12:01 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> The Hindu beliefs say you live for ever.. as does my Russian soul. >>>>> >>>>> تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين >>>>> Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: RP Singh <[email protected]> >>>>> To: Minds Eye <[email protected]> >>>>> Sent: Tue, 10 Mar 2015 4:55 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Rule By Machine >>>>> >>>>> The idea of death just drives the shit out of us, the survival >>>>> instinct is that strong. That is the reason for our belief in souls, >>>>> after-life, etc. We just want to live for ever. >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 7:33 AM, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> We are biological organisms, Neil, and will remain thus. The future >>>>>> would either belong to us with us as the drivers and the controllers or >>>>>> to >>>>>> the machines. It would be a case of biological supremacy or robottical >>>>>> supremacy. In the end there would be doomsday and we together with >>>>>> machines >>>>>> and the universe would be annihilated by the Supreme force which is >>>>>> neither >>>>>> machine nor human. It is just a discussion between the few us and I >>>>>> don't >>>>>> think it would ever reach the ears of those who make policies in this >>>>>> world >>>>>> and yet not superfluous as it is a good exercise of the brain muscle, is >>>>>> it >>>>>> not, Neil? >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 7:08 AM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> We are already becoming useless appendages to the bosses. Once >>>>>>> robots can do the work, the bosses will dispose of us. If the machines >>>>>>> became Terminators, they would only be doing what humans have done to >>>>>>> countless species. We might, of course RP, become the machines. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The women aren't in this thread - is this a boy's toys thing? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tuesday, March 10, 2015 at 1:20:35 AM UTC, RP Singh wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Machines might not even want us, Neil. We might be useless >>>>>>>> appendage to them and might be exterminated. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 6:23 AM, archytas <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> We might already be living under the tyranny of our gene machines >>>>>>>>> RP. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, 10 March 2015 00:22:49 UTC, RP Singh wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> As long as man is sane he will not destroy humanity though he >>>>>>>>>> might loot it for self aggrandizement, But some contribution to the >>>>>>>>>> human >>>>>>>>>> pool will remain, We can't be that sure with machines and they must >>>>>>>>>> always >>>>>>>>>> remain subservient to us otherwise we will be at risk to lose the >>>>>>>>>> very >>>>>>>>>> freedom for which we are making so much effort. Again, my contention >>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>> know your nature and potential before you make machines that surpass >>>>>>>>>> our >>>>>>>>>> intelligence because cold and calculating freaks might not be loyal >>>>>>>>>> to us, >>>>>>>>>> rather live in tyranny of humans than under the rule of heartless >>>>>>>>>> machines. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 5:26 AM, frantheman < >>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I have always regarded Ursula Le Guin's *The Dispossessed >>>>>>>>>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dispossessed> *as one of the >>>>>>>>>>> greatest SF novels ever written. In her depiction of the anarchist >>>>>>>>>>> society >>>>>>>>>>> of Annares, the whole administration of practical organisation is >>>>>>>>>>> carried >>>>>>>>>>> out by computers. This serves to take a major component of the >>>>>>>>>>> exercise of >>>>>>>>>>> power out of the area of human relations. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> "Rule" is basically the exercise of power. The will to power >>>>>>>>>>> seems to be one of the strongest human urges - indeed, it's wider >>>>>>>>>>> than just >>>>>>>>>>> human - take the constant jostling for rank and status in a >>>>>>>>>>> wolf-pack, for >>>>>>>>>>> example. I suspect most of those of us involved here in this forum >>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>> freaks as we don't seem to possess much of it. Personally I don't >>>>>>>>>>> get it, >>>>>>>>>>> but I must acknowledge that it seems to be (and always has been) an >>>>>>>>>>> immensely strong driving force for a lot of people. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Our concepts of freedom and autonomy make my initial reaction to >>>>>>>>>>> the idea of "rule by machine" instinctively and immediately >>>>>>>>>>> suspicious. But >>>>>>>>>>> then, on reflection, I'm already being "ruled" by all sorts of >>>>>>>>>>> shadowy >>>>>>>>>>> people/groups/elites, who daily make all sorts of decisions which >>>>>>>>>>> have huge >>>>>>>>>>> effects on the life I live and who certainly don't have an sense of >>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>> well-being in mind (apart from that portion of my material assets >>>>>>>>>>> which is >>>>>>>>>>> part of a pension fund/savings/investment fund/life insurance - >>>>>>>>>>> which then >>>>>>>>>>> has the notionally privileged status of being the object of >>>>>>>>>>> shareholder-value). Could machines fuck things up any worse than >>>>>>>>>>> humans do >>>>>>>>>>> at the moment? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if there aren't some deep neurotic guilt/fear things at >>>>>>>>>>> work here. There's the old story of the Sorcerer's Apprentice, who >>>>>>>>>>> Goethe >>>>>>>>>>> has despairingly calling out; "Herr, die Noth ist groß! Die ich >>>>>>>>>>> rief, die >>>>>>>>>>> Geister, Werd’ ich nun nicht los. [Master, I'm in deep shit here! I >>>>>>>>>>> can't >>>>>>>>>>> get rid of the fucking spirits I summoned]." Or the idea that when >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> Singularity >>>>>>>>>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity> comes, >>>>>>>>>>> the first things the machine intelligences will do is get rid of us >>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>> being hopelessly corrupt and imperfect. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> It's the feeling that we're giving over control to something >>>>>>>>>>> else - something we may try to programme so that it is benevolent >>>>>>>>>>> towards >>>>>>>>>>> us - but where there are no guarantees. But what guarantees do we >>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>> right now? And who controls? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Am Montag, 9. März 2015 08:44:34 UTC+1 schrieb archytas: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Human leadership is corrupt. The history is clear. We form >>>>>>>>>>>> empires of violence. At the start of WW1, about 1911 with the >>>>>>>>>>>> Italian >>>>>>>>>>>> invasion of part of the declining Ottoman Empire, we had a >>>>>>>>>>>> population the >>>>>>>>>>>> planet could manage, new technologies that could have released us >>>>>>>>>>>> from work >>>>>>>>>>>> serfdom and the potential to grow green and surpass our >>>>>>>>>>>> libidinal-violent >>>>>>>>>>>> biology. Instead we went to war and have over-populated like a >>>>>>>>>>>> bacterial >>>>>>>>>>>> colony poisoning itself. This war to end all war led to another >>>>>>>>>>>> one, >>>>>>>>>>>> largely about exhausting the Wehrmacht on Soviet forces. I have >>>>>>>>>>>> no idea >>>>>>>>>>>> how these wars started, interesting given how much education I've >>>>>>>>>>>> had. The >>>>>>>>>>>> Americans won and everyone else lost, but Americans generally >>>>>>>>>>>> wanted no >>>>>>>>>>>> part of the stuff. Various fables on cause make no sense. Much >>>>>>>>>>>> can be >>>>>>>>>>>> said on this, yet we evade the fairly obvious reality that human >>>>>>>>>>>> society is >>>>>>>>>>>> generally dire. About 250,000 of the 400,000 inhabitants of the >>>>>>>>>>>> zenith of >>>>>>>>>>>> the Athenian democracy were slaves, and slaving was the major >>>>>>>>>>>> Black Sea >>>>>>>>>>>> industry from then until 1870. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Machines could help us get over ourselves and establish a >>>>>>>>>>>> rational society. This would be a rebellion to remove the >>>>>>>>>>>> allocation class >>>>>>>>>>>> that owns nearly everything a monetary value can be put on. We >>>>>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>>>>> embody knowledge in the machines (we already do) and rely on their >>>>>>>>>>>> genuine >>>>>>>>>>>> rationality instead of our faux version, corrupted by our >>>>>>>>>>>> libidinal-violent >>>>>>>>>>>> biology. Most people are very scared of intelligent machines and >>>>>>>>>>>> rather >>>>>>>>>>>> like the idea humans are superior because we can remove their >>>>>>>>>>>> plugs. We >>>>>>>>>>>> worry they will destroy us in a world with 8,000 nuclear weapons >>>>>>>>>>>> in safe >>>>>>>>>>>> human hands that are not problematic. Genghis Khan killed about a >>>>>>>>>>>> third of >>>>>>>>>>>> his known world's population. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Why do we hate machines so much? Do we fear their rationality >>>>>>>>>>>> shames us? We are all now chronically ignorant compared with >>>>>>>>>>>> extra-somatic >>>>>>>>>>>> databases. Maybe we fear control by machines operating in the >>>>>>>>>>>> interests of >>>>>>>>>>>> a small group or police state - yet this 'machine' is already in >>>>>>>>>>>> place as a >>>>>>>>>>>> socio-technical human endeavor as the allocation class in real >>>>>>>>>>>> power we >>>>>>>>>>>> can't vote out. We could change a lot if we weren't so naff about >>>>>>>>>>>> this. >>>>>>>>>>>> Anyone here even think about it? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> In terms of data, what we chatter about, changes as data if we >>>>>>>>>>>> are not actually interested in large-scale human change. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> --- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> --- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> --- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>>
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