Dawkins would say the mystic pursuits waste time. This is no big deal. Epistemologies can have tenderness and tolerance built in. There is a huge difference between what some mystics and other creatives do and the way I think Dawkin's lot get so fed up with in what amounts to little more than chronic prejudice from ignorance. Our responses often come from frustration and assumed slight. I don't think RP is any more likely than me to have you up in front of the court as a 'bad mother'. He )might, like me, think there are more urgent problems to solve and that science may be a better approach. Most statements in here need a couple of pages of footnotes. I expect there were very different ones already in my head than RP's on the drug thingy thing you touched on. RP can come over a bit patronising but we all have our secret pleasures. I found this quite a common feature of some Indian society. I don;t think this has to be seen as wrong and usually found a way to focus beyond it. Anyway Moll, get back in the kitchen! I don;t think.
On Friday, March 20, 2015 at 12:38:20 AM UTC, Molly wrote: > > Translation must be confusing idea with viewpoint somehow, two completely > different things in the English language. I am also unsure why you think > your perceptions and judgement of people who are seeking a mystical > experience apply to all mystics but all I can say is I have had a > completely different experience of people who study mysticism and have had > mystical experiences. While some of them do follow the trends, the majority > of people I know who follow these interests are professional, successful, > intelligent, more often than not, loving people. You may feel that these > pursuits are a waste of time, that does not mean they are. It just means > that your judgements shape your opinions. not uncommon. If you feel this > way, why enter into the discussion? Do you get something out of telling > people they waste their time and shrug their family responsibility (even > though you have no clue whether or not they actually do? > > On Thursday, March 19, 2015 at 8:16:00 PM UTC-4, RP Singh wrote: >> >> There is difference between viewpoint and experience, in the first there >> is just an idea in the other there is the experiencing. I have known many >> people spending hours in the practice of concentration to achieve the >> experience, time which could easily have been spent on more essential >> activities. Also most people get so obsessed with the idea that they become >> carefree and start taking worldly matters carelessly, their priorities get >> skewed. >> >> On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 5:03 AM, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> I am sure you know nothing about how I live up to my responsibilities to >>> my family as illustrated by your statement. Having a mystical viewpoint, or >>> your viewpoint or any other viewpoint does not require you to neglect your >>> family and I have not clue why you would think so. These experiences can >>> happen as you go through your daily life, fulfilling your responsibilities. >>> I gave you the name Nisargadatta, a mystic from your country. He >>> fulfills his daily obligations while teaching the mystical viewpoint. Look >>> it up. >>> >>> On Thursday, March 19, 2015 at 1:22:59 PM UTC-4, RP Singh wrote: >>> >>>> You have lost the direction of the discussion in this foolish business >>>> of halos.Pursuit of experience of what you call spiritual experience by >>>> taking drugs or concentration is just so much waste of time and energy. It >>>> yields nothing except smugness of achieving what you call the experience >>>> of >>>> non-duality. All this at the expense of finding time to fulfill your >>>> responsibility towards your family. You have to get your priorities right! >>>> >>>> On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 10:11 PM, andrew vecsey <[email protected] >>>> > wrote: >>>> >>>>> I am not sure what you want me to ask an artist, but if you mean that >>>>> I should ask the artists how to interpret their works of art, they should >>>>> be insulted. They would i think like to believe that there are as many >>>>> interpretations to their works of art as there are eyes that behold them. >>>>> >>>>> On Thursday, March 19, 2015 at 5:21:27 PM UTC+1, Allan Heretic wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Ask the artist. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين >>>>>> Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: RP Singh <[email protected]> >>>>>> To: Minds Eye <[email protected]> >>>>>> Sent: Thu, 19 Mar 2015 4:20 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Einstein and the Mystics >>>>>> >>>>>> I don't see why religious people should be honored , how and in what >>>>>> way are doctors, engineers and social activists inferior to your >>>>>> God-knowers? >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 8:28 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> What I have been trying to tell you is halos are and artist >>>>>>> rendition type of thing. Have little or nothing about reality. >>>>>>> Why not let people just be people and not read ideas into images.. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين >>>>>>> Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: RP Singh <[email protected]> >>>>>>> To: Minds Eye <[email protected]> >>>>>>> Sent: Thu, 19 Mar 2015 3:43 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Einstein and the Mystics >>>>>>> >>>>>>> By your reasoning people who talk a lot about God, about their >>>>>>> experience of God are holy people! I have known a lot of such people to >>>>>>> be >>>>>>> thieves and vagabonds thriving on the gullibility of the masses, Osho >>>>>>> was >>>>>>> one such and was rightly booted out of the States. Maybe I should put a >>>>>>> halo around you because you claim to have met God three times. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 7:58 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Do you think a lot of the political leaders of today should be >>>>>>>> admired and follow their moral behavior.. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What you just said is thieves are murders should be admired.. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين >>>>>>>> Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: RP Singh <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> To: Minds Eye <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> Sent: Thu, 19 Mar 2015 3:18 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Einstein and the Mystics >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If that is the case why don't they have halos around so many dead >>>>>>>> dignitaries like the American Presidents, Indian Prime Ministers and >>>>>>>> social >>>>>>>> activists? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 7:37 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The purpose of the halo is to draw attention.. To the Person or >>>>>>>>> being in the picture or drawing. It does not mean that it exist in >>>>>>>>> physical >>>>>>>>> life.. It is simply a symbol of honor. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين >>>>>>>>> Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: RP Singh <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> To: Minds Eye <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Thu, 19 Mar 2015 2:55 PM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Einstein and the Mystics >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> But I don't see any around you, my friend! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 7:13 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I think you need to check the paintings of Indian deities. Looks >>>>>>>>>> like a lot of halos to me. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين >>>>>>>>>> Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: RP Singh <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>> To: Minds Eye <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thu, 19 Mar 2015 2:27 PM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Einstein and the Mystics >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> What can be gained by the experience, it is a lot of hard work >>>>>>>>>> and takes much time. You can see Molly, Vam and many others, they >>>>>>>>>> are just >>>>>>>>>> like us, at least I don't see any halo around them, maybe you do. We >>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>> so many responsibilities in this world and instead of taking care of >>>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>>> we are engaged in this fruitless exercise. We need to have our >>>>>>>>>> priorities >>>>>>>>>> right! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 18, 2015 at 11:45 AM, archytas <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Certainly logic in that RP. Physics has got very interested >>>>>>>>>>> (speculatively) on observer-observed 'interactions' and >>>>>>>>>>> quantum-jumping in >>>>>>>>>>> 4 sheets of space-time shadows of 8 dimensions and a role for dark >>>>>>>>>>> matter >>>>>>>>>>> in biology. You have to be pretty clever to follow it and pretty >>>>>>>>>>> dumb to >>>>>>>>>>> think you understand it, and that understanding requires some sort >>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>> notion of ourselves as electro-magnetic fields in instantaneous >>>>>>>>>>> connection >>>>>>>>>>> with distant aliens (these claims on a non-scientific basis are >>>>>>>>>>> found in >>>>>>>>>>> some 'primitive dreamtimes') - as well as more material-organic. >>>>>>>>>>> Someone >>>>>>>>>>> was standing next to me when I saw my Mongol horde and she didn't >>>>>>>>>>> see it. >>>>>>>>>>> My mind distinctly placed the scene as 'outside me' yet clearly it >>>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>> inside my virtual space. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> There has long been talk of misplaced concreteness and the >>>>>>>>>>> bifurcation of reality (AN Whitehead here, deep in Eastern >>>>>>>>>>> history). >>>>>>>>>>> Reality is structured and so is the concept of duality. Rapture and >>>>>>>>>>> bliss >>>>>>>>>>> may be good for us like breast-feeding, but seem unlikely as much >>>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>> than a variation in human experience. However, I do think some >>>>>>>>>>> kind of >>>>>>>>>>> first contact might be made, even in trying to have such experience. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, March 18, 2015 at 3:48:25 AM UTC, RP Singh wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The state of bliss or rapture is just a state of awareness of a >>>>>>>>>>>> human being, it cannot be called non-dual or God-state. If you >>>>>>>>>>>> look at the >>>>>>>>>>>> very word 'non-dual' it means absence of two and in effect one. In >>>>>>>>>>>> any >>>>>>>>>>>> state of consciousness or awareness there are always two--the >>>>>>>>>>>> observer and >>>>>>>>>>>> the observation, there is the one that is aware and the bliss or >>>>>>>>>>>> rapture. >>>>>>>>>>>> Non-dual expresses a singularity, the 'ONE', where there is no >>>>>>>>>>>> other, in >>>>>>>>>>>> effect a state beyond consciousness or maybe just a permanent >>>>>>>>>>>> state of >>>>>>>>>>>> unconsciousness. It is not death but the supreme state from which >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> entire creation streams out following the big bang or whatever. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 18, 2015 at 4:17 AM, archytas <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Indeed you are a god to me Tony - just don't fall on my spot >>>>>>>>>>>>> at the bottom of the precipice or break Allan's coffee machine on >>>>>>>>>>>>> the way >>>>>>>>>>>>> down. One could fall to grace. The Russians stopped drilling >>>>>>>>>>>>> into the >>>>>>>>>>>>> Earth's core at about 8 miles. Some believe this was because >>>>>>>>>>>>> they could >>>>>>>>>>>>> hear the screams from Hell. In fact, their drill just hit a pot >>>>>>>>>>>>> of Allan's >>>>>>>>>>>>> double espresso and Gabby was scalded on the floor below. We >>>>>>>>>>>>> have had to >>>>>>>>>>>>> keep the trap-door shut since then, though we now get messages >>>>>>>>>>>>> she has made >>>>>>>>>>>>> her own hope and sunshine, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> If the mystics are mystic, why do they keep copying each other >>>>>>>>>>>>> like management textbook writers and gurus? I sort of want >>>>>>>>>>>>> something >>>>>>>>>>>>> different and if I had the experience would be really pissed off >>>>>>>>>>>>> if I could >>>>>>>>>>>>> only describe it as though I'd just come out of a Tom Perter's >>>>>>>>>>>>> session. Of >>>>>>>>>>>>> course, I haven't be purified yet or got a licence to fly the >>>>>>>>>>>>> higher >>>>>>>>>>>>> plane. If it's VTOL I promise to drop by and take you on the >>>>>>>>>>>>> ride. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> There has to be more to mysticism than the Soylent Green type >>>>>>>>>>>>> and the sales pitchers of its nutritional value. Maths with no >>>>>>>>>>>>> numbers >>>>>>>>>>>>> does a bit of it for me, but as we know, Allan zeroes out. We >>>>>>>>>>>>> use light to >>>>>>>>>>>>> remind mice about good times and they return to them. Thought a >>>>>>>>>>>>> lot on >>>>>>>>>>>>> Andrew's framework down by the river. A couple of young girls >>>>>>>>>>>>> were hugging >>>>>>>>>>>>> Zak - his now rather done in back legs got a temporary cure and >>>>>>>>>>>>> he bounded >>>>>>>>>>>>> with the mystic eyes of pleasure for a bit. Max went to round >>>>>>>>>>>>> the old guy >>>>>>>>>>>>> up so we could go home, but the girls' dad was telling them about >>>>>>>>>>>>> river >>>>>>>>>>>>> otters, so we stayed a while. To the girls' delight, the dogs >>>>>>>>>>>>> went into >>>>>>>>>>>>> the river to demonstrate. It's out there somewhere. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, March 17, 2015 at 9:35:33 PM UTC, facilitator >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I happen to be very humble. Sometimes proud of it. I did >>>>>>>>>>>>>> not answer myself. Anyone reading that has to resharpen their >>>>>>>>>>>>>> senses so as >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to make a more simple response quite profound. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Clearly their is something at work here which requires me >>>>>>>>>>>>>> know to "adjust" my dispenser orifice. My narcissistic >>>>>>>>>>>>>> arrogance was not >>>>>>>>>>>>>> present at that age since I mostly found myself fighting off >>>>>>>>>>>>>> gangs from >>>>>>>>>>>>>> other blocks in my urban neighborhood. Very little time to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> think past >>>>>>>>>>>>>> which alley way is the quickest route home. Being careful not to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> become >>>>>>>>>>>>>> cynical, I weave my way around and find no alley way. Expounding >>>>>>>>>>>>>> on this >>>>>>>>>>>>>> any further would probably cheapen the experience. Fascinating! >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thinking >>>>>>>>>>>>>> there might be a deity involved would be a first step, thinking >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I might be >>>>>>>>>>>>>> my own deity is not a step but a precipice. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, March 17, 2015 at 5:13:36 PM UTC-4, archytas >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Knowing more than Tony is easy. Like Zaphod Beeblebrox, his >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ego is bigger than imagination from a slice of Proust's angel >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cake that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> took him back to an aunty's. Using such power to visit an aunt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reveals a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lack of knowledge or a very dull boy. As Tony cannot be the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> latter, one >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> presumes the former, though this does not exclude the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possibility his ego >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is bigger than the universe itself. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>> Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>> Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> --- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> --- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>> >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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