I suppose it can be seen as a matter of communication style, one riddled with judgement of right and wrong ways to live a life, what is of value, what is worthless. Those judgments take on different meaning when discussing pebbles on a beach than human beings. And I can see how it is impossible to understand the concept of non dual never having experienced it, let alone living life from its viewpoint. I actually had a police chief ask me why I wasn't at home baking cookies instead of working. It became clear further in the discussion that he wanted to take charge of the project I was managing for the county executive, and had no bones about telling everyone about it. What he didn't see is what a fool his own words made of him. Yet in this particular instance, we both were making substantial contributions to the community and continued to do so.
My husband has had a ritual of swimming three mornings a week for decades. There are a group of people at his local community pool that have been going for decades. One of them goes every day. Sam is a wonderful, loving man who just invited us and a couple hundred other people to celebrate his 50th wedding anniversary with his family. Some might say that time spent swimming every morning is a waste of time that could be better spend in ways more productive to his family and community. Or they might say that it is fine for a group of men to engage in such routine, but women are better off doing other things with their lives. I say who are we to judge the life of another human being or the worth of their endeavor? Where does the judging get us? Young adults that are able to transition from a moral code of right and wrong to one that can see the inherent worth in all life are the ones that can work well in groups, bring people together, create everyone wins processes and cultures and generate more Logos, or shared meaning throughout their day than those that cannot. Young adulthood is the age appropriate age for this transition. Not everyone makes it. There are those that focus on what they don't like, they don't approve of, they don't value, instead of what they do. The focus outside of oneself is self limiting. The focus on oneself can be too if not balanced. There is a state of consciousness where our inner life and outer life become one life. This point is included in the mystical view. A person with no sense of the infinite aspects of self can only focus on finite aspects of self. Again in a mystical view, the finite and infinite aspects become non dual. How is the paradox. Well I am off for a day jam packed with wasting my time, neglecting my family, fighting with other women and sleeping. Oh and I forgot no practical achievement and spoiling the life of others who follow me. The good life. On Thursday, March 19, 2015 at 9:19:42 PM UTC-4, archytas wrote: > > Dawkins would say the mystic pursuits waste time. This is no big deal. > Epistemologies can have tenderness and tolerance built in. There is a > huge difference between what some mystics and other creatives do and the > way I think Dawkin's lot get so fed up with in what amounts to little more > than chronic prejudice from ignorance. Our responses often come from > frustration and assumed slight. I don't think RP is any more likely than > me to have you up in front of the court as a 'bad mother'. He )might, like > me, think there are more urgent problems to solve and that science may be a > better approach. Most statements in here need a couple of pages of > footnotes. I expect there were very different ones already in my head than > RP's on the drug thingy thing you touched on. RP can come over a bit > patronising but we all have our secret pleasures. I found this quite a > common feature of some Indian society. I don;t think this has to be seen > as wrong and usually found a way to focus beyond it. Anyway Moll, get back > in the kitchen! I don;t think. > > On Friday, March 20, 2015 at 12:38:20 AM UTC, Molly wrote: >> >> Translation must be confusing idea with viewpoint somehow, two completely >> different things in the English language. I am also unsure why you think >> your perceptions and judgement of people who are seeking a mystical >> experience apply to all mystics but all I can say is I have had a >> completely different experience of people who study mysticism and have had >> mystical experiences. While some of them do follow the trends, the majority >> of people I know who follow these interests are professional, successful, >> intelligent, more often than not, loving people. You may feel that these >> pursuits are a waste of time, that does not mean they are. It just means >> that your judgements shape your opinions. not uncommon. If you feel this >> way, why enter into the discussion? Do you get something out of telling >> people they waste their time and shrug their family responsibility (even >> though you have no clue whether or not they actually do? >> >> On Thursday, March 19, 2015 at 8:16:00 PM UTC-4, RP Singh wrote: >>> >>> There is difference between viewpoint and experience, in the first there >>> is just an idea in the other there is the experiencing. I have known many >>> people spending hours in the practice of concentration to achieve the >>> experience, time which could easily have been spent on more essential >>> activities. Also most people get so obsessed with the idea that they become >>> carefree and start taking worldly matters carelessly, their priorities get >>> skewed. >>> >>> On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 5:03 AM, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> I am sure you know nothing about how I live up to my responsibilities >>>> to my family as illustrated by your statement. Having a mystical >>>> viewpoint, >>>> or your viewpoint or any other viewpoint does not require you to neglect >>>> your family and I have not clue why you would think so. These experiences >>>> can happen as you go through your daily life, fulfilling your >>>> responsibilities. I gave you the name Nisargadatta, a mystic from your >>>> country. He fulfills his daily obligations while teaching the mystical >>>> viewpoint. Look it up. >>>> >>>> On Thursday, March 19, 2015 at 1:22:59 PM UTC-4, RP Singh wrote: >>>> >>>>> You have lost the direction of the discussion in this foolish business >>>>> of halos.Pursuit of experience of what you call spiritual experience by >>>>> taking drugs or concentration is just so much waste of time and energy. >>>>> It >>>>> yields nothing except smugness of achieving what you call the experience >>>>> of >>>>> non-duality. All this at the expense of finding time to fulfill your >>>>> responsibility towards your family. You have to get your priorities right! >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 10:11 PM, andrew vecsey < >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I am not sure what you want me to ask an artist, but if you mean that >>>>>> I should ask the artists how to interpret their works of art, they >>>>>> should >>>>>> be insulted. They would i think like to believe that there are as many >>>>>> interpretations to their works of art as there are eyes that behold them. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thursday, March 19, 2015 at 5:21:27 PM UTC+1, Allan Heretic wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ask the artist. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين >>>>>>> Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: RP Singh <[email protected]> >>>>>>> To: Minds Eye <[email protected]> >>>>>>> Sent: Thu, 19 Mar 2015 4:20 PM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Einstein and the Mystics >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I don't see why religious people should be honored , how and in what >>>>>>> way are doctors, engineers and social activists inferior to your >>>>>>> God-knowers? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 8:28 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What I have been trying to tell you is halos are and artist >>>>>>>> rendition type of thing. Have little or nothing about reality. >>>>>>>> Why not let people just be people and not read ideas into images.. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين >>>>>>>> Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: RP Singh <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> To: Minds Eye <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> Sent: Thu, 19 Mar 2015 3:43 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Einstein and the Mystics >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> By your reasoning people who talk a lot about God, about their >>>>>>>> experience of God are holy people! I have known a lot of such people >>>>>>>> to be >>>>>>>> thieves and vagabonds thriving on the gullibility of the masses, Osho >>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>> one such and was rightly booted out of the States. Maybe I should put >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> halo around you because you claim to have met God three times. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 7:58 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Do you think a lot of the political leaders of today should be >>>>>>>>> admired and follow their moral behavior.. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> What you just said is thieves are murders should be admired.. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين >>>>>>>>> Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: RP Singh <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> To: Minds Eye <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Thu, 19 Mar 2015 3:18 PM >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Einstein and the Mystics >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If that is the case why don't they have halos around so many dead >>>>>>>>> dignitaries like the American Presidents, Indian Prime Ministers and >>>>>>>>> social >>>>>>>>> activists? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 7:37 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The purpose of the halo is to draw attention.. To the Person or >>>>>>>>>> being in the picture or drawing. It does not mean that it exist in >>>>>>>>>> physical >>>>>>>>>> life.. It is simply a symbol of honor. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين >>>>>>>>>> Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>> From: RP Singh <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>> To: Minds Eye <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thu, 19 Mar 2015 2:55 PM >>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Einstein and the Mystics >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> But I don't see any around you, my friend! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 7:13 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I think you need to check the paintings of Indian deities. Looks >>>>>>>>>>> like a lot of halos to me. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين >>>>>>>>>>> Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: RP Singh <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>> To: Minds Eye <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thu, 19 Mar 2015 2:27 PM >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Einstein and the Mystics >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> What can be gained by the experience, it is a lot of hard work >>>>>>>>>>> and takes much time. You can see Molly, Vam and many others, they >>>>>>>>>>> are just >>>>>>>>>>> like us, at least I don't see any halo around them, maybe you do. >>>>>>>>>>> We have >>>>>>>>>>> so many responsibilities in this world and instead of taking care >>>>>>>>>>> of them >>>>>>>>>>> we are engaged in this fruitless exercise. We need to have our >>>>>>>>>>> priorities >>>>>>>>>>> right! >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 18, 2015 at 11:45 AM, archytas <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Certainly logic in that RP. Physics has got very interested >>>>>>>>>>>> (speculatively) on observer-observed 'interactions' and >>>>>>>>>>>> quantum-jumping in >>>>>>>>>>>> 4 sheets of space-time shadows of 8 dimensions and a role for dark >>>>>>>>>>>> matter >>>>>>>>>>>> in biology. You have to be pretty clever to follow it and pretty >>>>>>>>>>>> dumb to >>>>>>>>>>>> think you understand it, and that understanding requires some sort >>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>>> notion of ourselves as electro-magnetic fields in instantaneous >>>>>>>>>>>> connection >>>>>>>>>>>> with distant aliens (these claims on a non-scientific basis are >>>>>>>>>>>> found in >>>>>>>>>>>> some 'primitive dreamtimes') - as well as more material-organic. >>>>>>>>>>>> Someone >>>>>>>>>>>> was standing next to me when I saw my Mongol horde and she didn't >>>>>>>>>>>> see it. >>>>>>>>>>>> My mind distinctly placed the scene as 'outside me' yet clearly it >>>>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>>>> inside my virtual space. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> There has long been talk of misplaced concreteness and the >>>>>>>>>>>> bifurcation of reality (AN Whitehead here, deep in Eastern >>>>>>>>>>>> history). >>>>>>>>>>>> Reality is structured and so is the concept of duality. Rapture >>>>>>>>>>>> and bliss >>>>>>>>>>>> may be good for us like breast-feeding, but seem unlikely as much >>>>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>>> than a variation in human experience. However, I do think some >>>>>>>>>>>> kind of >>>>>>>>>>>> first contact might be made, even in trying to have such >>>>>>>>>>>> experience. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, March 18, 2015 at 3:48:25 AM UTC, RP Singh wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The state of bliss or rapture is just a state of awareness of >>>>>>>>>>>>> a human being, it cannot be called non-dual or God-state. If you >>>>>>>>>>>>> look at >>>>>>>>>>>>> the very word 'non-dual' it means absence of two and in effect >>>>>>>>>>>>> one. In any >>>>>>>>>>>>> state of consciousness or awareness there are always two--the >>>>>>>>>>>>> observer and >>>>>>>>>>>>> the observation, there is the one that is aware and the bliss or >>>>>>>>>>>>> rapture. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Non-dual expresses a singularity, the 'ONE', where there is no >>>>>>>>>>>>> other, in >>>>>>>>>>>>> effect a state beyond consciousness or maybe just a permanent >>>>>>>>>>>>> state of >>>>>>>>>>>>> unconsciousness. It is not death but the supreme state from which >>>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>>> entire creation streams out following the big bang or whatever. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 18, 2015 at 4:17 AM, archytas <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Indeed you are a god to me Tony - just don't fall on my spot >>>>>>>>>>>>>> at the bottom of the precipice or break Allan's coffee machine >>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the way >>>>>>>>>>>>>> down. One could fall to grace. The Russians stopped drilling >>>>>>>>>>>>>> into the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Earth's core at about 8 miles. Some believe this was because >>>>>>>>>>>>>> they could >>>>>>>>>>>>>> hear the screams from Hell. In fact, their drill just hit a pot >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of Allan's >>>>>>>>>>>>>> double espresso and Gabby was scalded on the floor below. We >>>>>>>>>>>>>> have had to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> keep the trap-door shut since then, though we now get messages >>>>>>>>>>>>>> she has made >>>>>>>>>>>>>> her own hope and sunshine, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> If the mystics are mystic, why do they keep copying each >>>>>>>>>>>>>> other like management textbook writers and gurus? I sort of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> want something >>>>>>>>>>>>>> different and if I had the experience would be really pissed off >>>>>>>>>>>>>> if I could >>>>>>>>>>>>>> only describe it as though I'd just come out of a Tom Perter's >>>>>>>>>>>>>> session. Of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> course, I haven't be purified yet or got a licence to fly the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> higher >>>>>>>>>>>>>> plane. If it's VTOL I promise to drop by and take you on the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ride. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> There has to be more to mysticism than the Soylent Green type >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the sales pitchers of its nutritional value. Maths with no >>>>>>>>>>>>>> numbers >>>>>>>>>>>>>> does a bit of it for me, but as we know, Allan zeroes out. We >>>>>>>>>>>>>> use light to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> remind mice about good times and they return to them. Thought a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> lot on >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Andrew's framework down by the river. A couple of young girls >>>>>>>>>>>>>> were hugging >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Zak - his now rather done in back legs got a temporary cure and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> he bounded >>>>>>>>>>>>>> with the mystic eyes of pleasure for a bit. Max went to round >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the old guy >>>>>>>>>>>>>> up so we could go home, but the girls' dad was telling them >>>>>>>>>>>>>> about river >>>>>>>>>>>>>> otters, so we stayed a while. To the girls' delight, the dogs >>>>>>>>>>>>>> went into >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the river to demonstrate. It's out there somewhere. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, March 17, 2015 at 9:35:33 PM UTC, facilitator >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I happen to be very humble. Sometimes proud of it. I did >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not answer myself. Anyone reading that has to resharpen their >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> senses so as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to make a more simple response quite profound. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Clearly their is something at work here which requires me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know to "adjust" my dispenser orifice. My narcissistic >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> arrogance was not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> present at that age since I mostly found myself fighting off >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gangs from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other blocks in my urban neighborhood. Very little time to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think past >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which alley way is the quickest route home. Being careful not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to become >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cynical, I weave my way around and find no alley way. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Expounding on this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any further would probably cheapen the experience. Fascinating! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thinking >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there might be a deity involved would be a first step, thinking >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I might be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my own deity is not a step but a precipice. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, March 17, 2015 at 5:13:36 PM UTC-4, archytas >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Knowing more than Tony is easy. Like Zaphod Beeblebrox, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his ego is bigger than imagination from a slice of Proust's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> angel cake that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> took him back to an aunty's. Using such power to visit an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aunt reveals a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lack of knowledge or a very dull boy. As Tony cannot be the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> latter, one >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> presumes the former, though this does not exclude the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possibility his ego >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is bigger than the universe itself. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>> Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>> Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- 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