On Sun, Oct 25, 2020 at 10:16:54AM -0600, Theo de Raadt wrote:
> Jason McIntyre <j...@kerhand.co.uk> wrote:
> > whereas /etc/netstart is actually doing:
> > 
> > - configure non-physical:                           (1)
> > aggr trunk svlan vlan carp pppoe
> > - routing                                           (2)
> > - rest of non-physical:                             (3)
> > tun tap gif etherip gre egre mobileip pflow wg
> > 
> > we could try to keep this list up to date, but it may be easier to just
> > generally describe what netstart is doing.
> I think we goes wrong by trying to maintain these as lists, and part of
> where this goes wrong is weak definition of the reasons for the
> ordering.  (Meaning, the developers who tweak netstart to handle the
> concerns I'm about to describe, don't tend to think about the manual
> page).
> The (1) list of non-physical can probably be called "link-layer control
> interfaces".  Or let's find a name for this.  These devices mutate the
> presentation of other devices.  That's why their configuration needs to
> be done before the physical device.
> (2) The physical device is then brought up, including IP addressing. The
> things in (1) need to be done beforehands, or the physical device is
> participating in the wrong layer of network.
> the (3) list of non-physical devices are layer-2 or layer-3 and operate
> on devices which are already configured with some some sort of
> "addressing" configured.
> It would be nice to have our networking people come up with nice names
> for group (1) and (2); words which succinctly describe the
> classification like I've done above.  We need to increase understanding
> of this order, rather than just abstractly listing names of devices with
> complicated behaviours.
> Once that is done, I still think it is problematic for us to list all
> devices in each catagory:
> a) new subsystems will be forgotten
> b) the order of instantiation will sometimes be listed wrong -- for some
>    of these the order is highly significant.
> We can try to list as many as possible, but people who want the precise
> list (and order) should look in the netstart code.  The lists will get
> long and wrong.  If we find we cannot maintain the lists correctly
> because it is duplicated information, man page wording like "such as"
> could be used, also something which leads people to consider the script
> source as authoritative, ie. have them go read the script 

ok, here is a start.

i have left the description as "non-physical", because i think that is
clear. we could easily amend it. ifconfig.8 create talks about "network
pseudo-devices" - that could be a possibility.


Index: netstart.8
RCS file: /cvs/src/share/man/man8/netstart.8,v
retrieving revision 1.23
diff -u -p -r1.23 netstart.8
--- netstart.8  7 Mar 2018 09:54:23 -0000       1.23
+++ netstart.8  25 Oct 2020 16:39:04 -0000
@@ -64,20 +64,12 @@ Configure the loopback interface.
 Configure all the physical interfaces.
-Configure the following non-physical interfaces:
-.Xr trunk 4 ,
-.Xr vlan 4 ,
-.Xr pfsync 4 ,
-.Xr carp 4 .
+Configure any non-physical interfaces which need to be set up
+before default routes are in place.
 Initialize the routing table and set up the default routes.
-Configure the remaining non-physical interfaces:
-.Xr pppoe 4 ,
-.Xr gif 4 ,
-.Xr gre 4 .
+Configure the remaining non-physical interfaces.
 Configure all
 .Xr bridge 4

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