Theo de Raadt wrote:
>> Theo de Raadt wrote:
>>
>>> Hell, the OpenBSD ports tree should perhaps contain patches which
>>> REMOVE such commercial operating system support. That's a fork
>>> Richard would surely approve of.
>>>
>>> Richard, your pants are full of hypocritical poo.
>>>
>>>
>> I have no doubt that in some context Richard is hypocritical.
>> Though most of us would be hard pressed to structure our lives
>> to be consistent with our beleifs and principles to the extent
>> that he has.
>>
>> But this is not about EMACS, nor is it about hypocracy.
>>
>
> RMS made statements first. RMS will pay for his lies.
>
Why did I even bother.
I was not trying to defend RMS or attack you.
I was actually looking at the possibility that there might be some way
of getting something positive out of this
for OpenBSD. There is an obvious win-win for everybody, but you are
fixated on revenge for imaginary slights.
This sounds like something from my eight year old. You are 30something,
Grow up.
Do you really write your own email, or do you have some kid do them for
you ?
It is more important to you to catch Stallman in some mis-statement or
lie than to even figure out what is best for OpenBSD ?
Rather than figure out if there is anyway OpenBSD can benefit, it is
more important to find a way to screw somebody else ?
Every once in a while you show rationality and intelligence, and I think
maybe there is some real value and real hope for
OpenBSD, then you lob off a message like this one.
> No. Nothing begs the question of what we do. We are not going to
> change our process in any way as a result of what some loony retard
> says.
>
>
So if Richard adopted the BSD/ISC you would switch to the GPL just
to spite him ?
> We know _exactly_ what our principles are, and we are sticking to them
> very clearly.
>
Yes, the screw RMS, Screw the FSF, and screw the world, and screw
ourselves principle.
Because frankly I can't see where you are following any other.
Your position on closed hardware and binary blobs is exactly the same as
Stallman's,
and logically leads to the same position on software.
Yet so far I have gotten no position on software - aside from the claim
that Stallman somehow insulted OpenBSD.
The only way his remarks could be taken as an insult, would be if you
actually have the same principles.
Even then it would be more of an uninformed error than an insult.
It is not an insult for him to claim that you tacitly endorse non-free
software - if you do.
Whatever your principles are you are sticking to them so clearly that I
do not even think most of the OpenBSD
developers know what they actually are - well aside from the screw
everybody else principle. That one seems abundantly clear.
>> From the perspective of OpenBSD values,
>> How far does the OpenBSD disdain for non-free software extend ?
>>
>
> Richard does not stand in a position where he can ask that question
> to us. Nor do you. We'll do what we want, and your questions don't
> change anything.
>
Forget Richard, Forget me, Forget all the people you think have fucked
you over.
Instead of trying to figure out how to extract revenge, figure out what
is best for OpenBSD.
There is nothing wrong with doing what you want.
But it sure as hell looks as if you are more interested in making
certain that you do NOT do anything that richard might want.
That anytime he says black, you are going to say white.
In many circles I am known for having nearly an absolutist position on
Free Speech. Your expressed position is even more absolutist than mine.
Yet here you are telling others we can not even ask questions. My we
have clay feet.
Richard has actually answer the challenges you have thrown at him.
In those instances where someone found that something that he
recommended was not adhering to the standards he established,
he commited to look into it and either fix it or revoke his recommendation.
You refuse to deign to allow anyone else to ask questions.
>> Establish what your principles and policies are or are going to be.
>>
>
> We did. Years ago.
I got it, OpenBSD is good, non-free software is good, but anything
having anything to do with RMS is evil.
Seriously, nothing I have read of any OpenBSD policies and
principles is inconsistent with Richard's on this issue.
If I am wrong about that, then OpenBSD has done a poor job of
expressing its policies and principles.
If I am right you are cutting off your nose to spite your face.
This does not effect me personally one way or another.
I could give a rats ass about the future of OpenBSD.
Nor is this childish spat you seem to be having all by yourself
with Richard
of any consequence to me.
Though I will conceede you are incredibly frustrating,
how the hell can somebody so obviously intelligent,
be so obviously self destructive and stupid at the same time.
If one person calls you an ass, that's there problem.
If ten people call you an ass, maybe you should think about it.
If everyone on the planet outside your own cult calls you an ass,
you are either the messiah or an ass. My money is on the latter.
> Did you?
>
>
Do you have turrets or aspergers or some other reason why you are
compelled to insult virtually everyone ?
>> Adhere to them and THEN if they are consistent with Richard's
>> you can insist on his endorsement or burn him as a hypocrit.
>>
>
> We do adhere to our principles very exactly. Richard does not adhere
> to what he preaches.
>
> Richard came to our lists on a vendetta of hatred. Richard lied about
> our project. Richard continues, and he won't stop, and therefore he
> is an asshole. He'll get what he deserves -- we don't drop this issue
> now that he's gone so far.
>
>
Richard, Richard, Richard. You would think he is the anti-christ.
Forget Richard, look after your own interests.
Though Frankly, I suspect you will find that virtually every human
outside the cult of OpenBSD,
that gives enough of a damn to read Richards remarks would conclude that
nothing he said insulted OpenBSD, and that they were accurate.
>> If you are unwilling to adopt policies consistent with his,
>> accept that you are not getting his endorsement and shut this thread
>> down.
>>
>
> Why do you get to tell people what threads should be shut down?
>
Fine blather away as you please. Atleast Don Quite was fighting
against windmills for a worthwhile cause.
> Why don't you mail Richard and tell him to stop mailing our lists?
> Or are you his little brother?
>
I have e-mailed him. Pretty much the same thing I emailed you.
I sugested that since on this specific issue I could see no conflict
between what I percieve to be OpenBSD values and policies, that there
had to be someway to reach common ground.
But I do not speak for OpenBSD - you do.
And you seem to fixated on revenge for imagined slights to look out
for your own or OpenBSD's interests.
There are values I share with you, some I share with Richard, and
many I hold as my own.
I have had heated private exchanges with Richard on several topics.
But he has always been civil. He is a brilliant and shares many
other traits with you.
But he seems matured past eight, and realize that that whining and
ranting is not going to get him anywhere.
>
> There is no cooperation between FSF and OpenBSD, and if Richard keeps
> throwing poo at us, we will keep throwing poo right back at him and
> his hyporcritical project.
>
I got it, if the fate of the human race depended on cooperation
between the two of you,
the rest of us need to bend over and kiss our asses goodbye,
You would rather eat dog shit than concede there is any issue on the
planet that Richard is not wrong about.
If god came down and gave you a choice between a heaven with Richard
in it and eternal damnation, you would pick
eternal damnation.
>
>> Richard has offered you the oportunity to aquire his endorsement.
>>
>
> That's bullshit. Richard came looking for a fight. I don't think he
> expected to look this much like a loser.
>
Outside the cult of OpenBSD no one else sees it that way.
The few people who are paying attention are trying to figure out why
OpenBSD is more interested
in pissing all over RMS than looking after its own interests,
And Richard only looks stupid for beleiving there was any hope of
rational discourse.
>
>> With very little effort OpenBSD could be the most significant OS
>> with Richard Stallman's impratur
>> certifying it as totally free.
>>
>
> We are free. We don't need some uneducated guy who climbed up into
> some high chair endorsing us; he is jealous of what we do, and that
> noone else listens to him anymore.
>
If he is so jealous, why are you the ones whining because you can't
get anybody to give you any money ?
I read damn little besides sour grapes from the OpenBSD community.
I think Shakespeare might have some advice - "the fault is not in
our stars, but in ourselves".
But what would I know, like Richard, I am just an uneducated twit.
From what I can tell GPL/LGPL projects make up almost 75% of all
FOSS projects, and BSD projects less that 6%.
There are nearly as many projects under the new GPLv3 as the BSD
License.
Even Torvald's has gone from dead set against the GPLv3 to being
willing to actually use it in some circumstances.
All in all Richard has been doing quite well - despite graduating
magna cum laude from Harvard and picking up two honorary doctorates and
1 honorary professorship - this year.
If he gives a damn about OpenBSD at all, it is because if he could
endorse it, he could use it as an effective club to beat on Linux
distributions to get them to conform to his notions of free software.
While gNewSense might actually be more popular than OpenBSD, OpenBSD is
an actual real OS, with a real history even if it has damn few actual
users. "Am I not destroying my enemies when I make friends of them?"
He is not jealous of you. He just wants to use you as a means to much
bigger ends. But god forbid that you might actually benefit from that.
"Alas, alas for you, lawyers and pharisees, hypocrites that you are!
Sure that the kingdom of Heaven awaits you; you will not venture half so
far."
I am not the leader of the RMS fan club, but personally, it seems
like you can't figure out why he has the stature and attention he has,
and you do not.
Hey I can't figure out why Bill Gates is worth Billions and I am
not. But I am not letting it eat me up.
And while you are mail bombing Stallman - why don't you revive
another childish blast from the past and lob a few kernel binaries at him.
Do you actually read the crap you write ?
Please tell me that you have aspergers, or are a paranoid schitz, so
that there is a rational explanation for your behavior.
I am not out to get you. Richard is not out to get you. The FSF is
not out to get you. The world is not out to get you. But you appear to
be out to get you.
"You show people what you're willing to fight for when you fight
your friends
