A larger front sway bar does NOT help keep both tires on the ground. it increases roll resistance, causing the camber gain on the outside tire to lessen. How does it do this? by transferring weight OFF of the inside front tire. If the two are coupled together and you push the outside front tire up, the inside front tire is going to be pushed up as well... removing weight from it. With a big front bar the car will roll and damn near lift the inside front tire off the ground... if it is unweighted that much, you will just spin the tires coming out of any corner, and your exit speeds will suck ass.
If you're going to examine the handling dynamics of a volkswagen, you have to look at a few factors. Why do they pick up the inside rear tire? Because the outside front tire pitches down horribly in a corner. It's like a chair with a short leg... if you lean forward on that short leg, the back opposite one is gonna go up in the air. That's how you can end up with a car that is on 3 wheels and yet the front two tires STILL don't have as much traction as ONE in the rear. The outside front tire is pushed so hard that it is positively cambered, you're driving on the sidewall, and understeering like mad. >From there, you gotta figure out what your goals are and determine which direction you want to go. Direction 1: maximum cornering grip, while still keeping the horrible push the car has. Keep the car as flat as possible without it skating or pogo-ing across the track. Keep the front bar or get a slightly larger one, and run huge spring rates in the front. Keep roll in check, and the tires will stay flat on the ground. The rear suspension is not even worth considering except to say that you need spring rates high enough to match the ones in the front. Direction 2: a "neutral" handling car, that exhibits better dynamics. Use humongous springs or a huge bar in the rear to cause weight to transfer sooner there than in the front, so it will break loose at the same time the front does, or even sooner. It's not "more" weight transfer, because you're already getting 100% weight transfer when the inside rear tire is 8" off the ground. It's just happening soon enough that the outside front tire gets stuffed into the ground. Personally, I am going for 1, with a bit of 2 thrown in. Get the most grip possible from the front end, and then remove some grip from the rear to get it to rotate. My current setup consists of stock bars with 500lb/in springs in the front and 300lb/in in the rear. The car still pushes, and I'd almost say it pushes worse with the bigger springs even though it seems to stay a bit flatter. It's been so long since I've driven my car I can't comment too much, though. After reading any book on suspension design, it's pretty shocking that a VW handles as well as it does with how shitty the suspension geometry is. If only VW would switch to double wishbone in the front and a better trailing arm design in the rear. Oh wait, I guess I could just go buy a honda... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Denis Palmans" <[email protected]> To: "A2-16v" <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 1:33 PM Subject: Re: [A2-16v] Suspension Report Auto X > I think I disagree on this. Not adding any swaybars to the front is just as > pointless as only adding a huge rear sway bar. The swaybars connect the > suspension on both sides of the car, allowing for roll resistance. A larger > front swaybar would help to keep both front tires in contact with the > ground, which should allow for more grip in order to turn faster and harder. > Adding a huge bar to the back and leaving the front alone seems like it is > not what you would want to do. It would change the car from understeer to > slight oversteer, which while it would defiantly be fun would also be more > unpredictable and probably not as fast and consistent. > I agree with adding on a rear bar, but to not add a front bar, or > disconnecting the front bar does not seem like a good idea to me. Adding a > front bar, and then dialing in a rear bar from there to provide the best > feel seems like it should be how to go. Just because the car understeers or > doesn't 'feel' as fast doesn't mean it really is slower. > It would almost be like running much higher rate springs on the rear than on > the front of the car. > > Any suspension experts in here? > > -Denis > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "DocWyte" <[email protected]> > To: "Rich Blake" <[email protected]>; "A2-16v" <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 11:12 AM > Subject: Re: [A2-16v] Suspension Report Auto X > > > > Add the largest rear swaybar you can. I like the > > Shine Racing swaybar, it has no brackets that can fail > > and no bushings that creak. > > > > Leave the stock front swaybar in place!!! If you add > > a larger front swaybar you might as well not even > > bother to get swaybars at all, you'll only be > > counteracting the larger rear swaybar and dialing in > > understeer... > > > > -josh > > > > > > --- Rich Blake <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Finally got the car on the track with the new > > > suspension bits (Bilstien > > > HD/H&R Sport springs) and results are good and bad. > > > The good is that the > > > car is much less prone to body roll and turn in is > > > more precise and smooth. > > > Definately feels much better than stock suspension. > > > The bad is I'm still > > > pushing hard coming out of the corners which tells > > > me I need some stiffer > > > swaybars. I tried to play with tire pressure and > > > lowering the rears 2 psi > > > got me .200 sec slower. Overall however, I am about > > > 2 seconds faster than > > > before with the new stuff. With street tires I am > > > in the lower mid pack in > > > DSP which is pretty good for a mostly stock under > > > prepared car. Stiffer > > > bars, more neg camber (@-1.5 now) and some actual > > > race tires and I might be > > > competitive. Saving dollars... > > > > > > Rich Blake > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > A2-16v mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > http://maillist.myip.org/mailman/listinfo/a2-16v > > > For list archives, see listinfo link above. > > > > > > ===== > > Josh Wyte > > Momentum Motorsports > > 508-833-3024 After 5 pm EST > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs > > http://www.hotjobs.com > > _______________________________________________ > > A2-16v mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://maillist.myip.org/mailman/listinfo/a2-16v > > For list archives, see listinfo link above. > > > _______________________________________________ > A2-16v mailing list > [email protected] > http://maillist.myip.org/mailman/listinfo/a2-16v > For list archives, see listinfo link above. > >
