well i capped off one hole with a bolt/washer and the other with a thick 
plate and gasket.  turned the key once to hear the pump prime and then 
tried to start the car and it started right up and idled a bit less than 
900 rpm i think.

wow do i feel stupid.  

i got various little things to fix after poking around but my next problem 
is the cat/02 sensor.  i'm going to start fresh with my new cat and 02 
sensor at this point.  i assumed the wiring was ok but noticed some 
previous owner electrical tape and there are numerous wires tied together 
into a bundle thats hooking up to a ground on the passenger firewall.  this 
includes a single wire that is zip tied to the outside of the loom coming 
from the drivers side.  halfway it turns from black to brown with vw 
plastic connectors.

seems a little goofy at face value to have a single wire shoot all the way 
over there for ground right where all those wires meet. i have to look 
closer but i think something is screwed up if im reading right the 2nd 02 
sensor connector is a heater wire NOT ground?  the other harness with 2 
white wires goes into the loom.

i have a feeling car isn't even getting a signal from 02 sensor so i need 
to get that straight before installing new one.

i had the distributor at the old setups marks, i will have to time it 
tomorrow i couldn't actually see the marks well when trying the timing 
light in the dark tonight.  car runs and is revving out with the stock 
chip/cams, etc. but i noticed right away when i stab the throttle and it 
comes off the idle switch there was a slight gurgle and then it revs out 
but is reacting to pedal.   i'm hoping it needs to be timed and that will 
help.  

On Wednesday, March 16, 2016 at 7:56:36 PM UTC-7, damac2004 wrote:
>
> oh boy i am feeling stupid and think i have found the smoking gun here.
>
> is it possible that having 2 open holes on the back of the intake manifold 
> made the car act this way?
>
> this is not a california chasis so no egr stuff.  when i pulled the euro 
> manifold one hole had a bolt stuck through it with rtv and another hole was 
> held by bolts and gasket.
>
> when i was transferring everything over to the stock manifold i remember 
> poking down the hole with brake cleaner hose and hit what i thought was 
> solid wall on each.  at the time never seeing egr stuff assumed it maybe 
> would be drilled out for a car that needed that hardware.
>
> i had filled the holes up with brake cleaner with that side up and don't 
> think i paid close enough attention so this whole time it was installed on 
> the car like that.
>
> tonight as i went to transfer the old parts back on as my last hope effort 
> i noticed some leakage when spraying brake cleaner and a light bulb went 
> off.  so with those holes up if i spray one hole it fills the other hole 
> up.  if you leave the manifold sit the level of fluid just sits there. 
>  when i went to tilt sideways one way nothing happened but leaking out the 
> top.  when i tilted the other way 2 of the runners leaked the fluid out.
>
> i don't know these cars at all.  since the car wasn't running right i 
> never wanted to let it run long since it wasn't acting like a real car.  my 
> mom was watching and said i see some smoke and it sounds funny but of 
> course i told her its just stuff burning off and that it wasn't running 
> right.  couldn't really take a chance to look or feel closer.
>
> i have seen people mention these cars can run crappy with vac leaks and 
> they don't run without the intake tubes attached?  i'm hoping this is what 
> it was.  going to make some block off plates and gasket to seal those 2 
> holes up tight and then install all the old parts on it and hope like magic 
> its back to normal and then i can smog it.
>
> On Tuesday, March 1, 2016 at 10:41:38 AM UTC-8, hollandphillips wrote:
>>
>> I just thought of something. Any chance the fuel in the tank could be 
>> contaminated? Since I think you said you're in California, the fuel here is 
>> probably the worst in the U.S.. With the ethanol and other crazy additives 
>> that's in it, it has an extremely short shelf life. 
>> An other thing, I wonder how the fuel pumps are? If either the main or 
>> transfer pump aren't healthy, that can cause weird running problems. The 
>> easiest way to check the pumps is to disconnect the input line at the fuel 
>> distributor and have someone turn on the ignition for a second. You should 
>> get a really healthy stream of fuel. As I recall, the main pump operates at 
>> around 50psi, give or take. 
>> We're reaching for straws at this point, so the more you check that looks 
>> correct, that's fewer possibilities to deal with. 
>>
>> ~Holland
>> On Mar 1, 2016 10:15, "Larry Velez" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> I just checked and Marren is still in business and still rebuilding 
>>> injectors of all ages: 
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> https://www.injector.com/ 
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> https://www.facebook.com/MarrenFuelInjection/ 
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> -Larry
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> *From:* [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] *On 
>>> Behalf Of *Holland Phillips
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 1, 2016 12:56 PM
>>> *To:* [email protected]
>>> *Subject:* Re: [mk2-16v] how do i find out what engine i have?
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> I agree with you Chad. At this point, I would perform a compression 
>>> test. If that looks good, then I'm at a loss as to where to go next. Maybe 
>>> look at the injectors. It's probably easier and cheaper to try and find 
>>> some used, hopefully known good injectors, even if it's only one. Then you 
>>> could swap them one at a time and see if you find a bad one. There are a 
>>> couple of companies that do balancing and blueprinting of Motronic 
>>> injectors. I had mine done by Marren Motorsports back in the mid '90's, so 
>>> I don't know if they're still in business. They could perform just testing 
>>> to check for flow and pattern.
>>> Beyond that, I just don't know. 
>>>
>>> ~Holland
>>>
>>> On Feb 29, 2016 18:21, "Chad Rebuck" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> The key in the cam gear is only there for the alignment until the bolt 
>>> is tightened. It doesn't really hold the cam gear in place once the bolt is 
>>> tightened.  Same for the crank pulley too.  The key can break if the bolt 
>>> gets loose enough for it to turn.  
>>>
>>> I'm just curious how the engine sounds as you said it ran smoother for a 
>>> short while when you opened up the throttle.
>>>
>>> I'm about out of ideas.  If you take it to a shop the first thing 
>>> they're going to do is check the timing again and check the compression I 
>>> bet.
>>>
>>> On Feb 29, 2016 9:05 PM, "damac2004" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> im afraid to run this car for long but what would be better, a video 
>>> from the engine bay or tailpipe?
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> i didn't change the plug order, etc. when doing all this work, just 
>>> popped the distributor off and layed it in engine bay with battery out.
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> the cam i took off the car did have the cam gear tooth broken but it 
>>> didn't move based on how the keyway lined up, is that surprising?  i bought 
>>> another cam pulley off a vortex member and he sold it to me the exact same 
>>> way and told me every one he has taken off came the same way?  i thought 
>>> that was nuts but have seen through forums searching it has happened to 
>>> others.  i got a new cam pulley while doing all this work and its still 
>>> fine.  and i have to assume the crank is fine as well since it was good 
>>> running and all the marks are lining up correctly still.
>>>
>>> On Monday, February 29, 2016 at 5:56:38 PM UTC-8, chadrebuck wrote:
>>>
>>> Also check that the cam sprocket is located in the right place on the 
>>> cam. If the tooth broke off of the cam gear then it could rotate causing 
>>> the timing to be incorrect. Did you mention that the cam sprocket had a 
>>> broken locating tooth?
>>>
>>> On Feb 29, 2016 7:47 PM, "Chad Rebuck" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Changing the cams out will be a waste of time. What did you do to verify 
>>> the spark plug wire order? Can you take a video of how the car is running?
>>>
>>> On Feb 29, 2016 7:39 PM, "damac2004" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> i put the techtronics chip back in and put the older throttle body back 
>>> in with no changes in how the car is acting.  i also checked grounds and 
>>> ran some extras to the bundle on head, etc. just in case.
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> my issues make for a useless car, no way it could be driven.  so my 
>>> problems seem way beyond the little tuning people do to get their cars 
>>> running right.  this car ran and drove when i got it with very old and worn 
>>> injector seals and numerous vacuum lines with holes in it. it ran its best 
>>> when hot and on the throttle never gave out on me or died. although it had 
>>> goofy issues with starting consistently and idling a little 
>>> high/rough/inconsistent at times.
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> and i see people mention 02 sensors and cts making for a rough running 
>>> car possibly but again this is way worse than that.
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> i'm stuck so tomorrow i am going to put the old cams, etc. back on and 
>>> cross my fingers.
>>>
>>> On Saturday, February 27, 2016 at 8:41:59 PM UTC-8, hollandphillips 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Since the Mk 2 cars were all pre OBD, they had only one O2 sensor which 
>>> was mounted before the cat. So the ECU never knew if the cat even existed 
>>> or was functioning properly. Now that I think about it, if the O2 sensor 
>>> has no output, or was not connected, the ECU will go into "safe mode", 
>>> which is full rich. Hence your poor fuel mileage. I also recalled that the 
>>> O2 sensor on the Motronic cars is a three wire type, which means it has a 
>>> heater, so its output will become valid more quickly in order to reduce 
>>> emissions. All this is bringing back memories of all the 16V trivia I 
>>> acquired over the years. 😐
>>>
>>> ~Holland
>>>
>>> On Feb 27, 2016 20:00, "damac2004" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> i could test compression but it it did drive fine before i tore it all 
>>> apart, after this incident.
>>>
>>> this car had no cat so 02 sensor was laying underneath airbox this whole 
>>> time :).
>>>
>>> i thought the car stunk and i got bad mileage but this car was fun to 
>>> drive. i was beating on itand it pulled when i stomped on it all the time
>>>
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