nice post Jean really perfect... But I don`t agree with you wrt "recommend Linux only when somebody has problems with Windows". Windows does have problems especially when it comes to the long term speed ... I had a PC that my sister uses mainly for word processing, and the usual internet stuff ... I used to have to format it every now and then because the performance become so crappy... I told her to try Ubuntu for a week and if she found problems I would insall again her XP.. Its been 6 months now and she found no problems wiht ubuntu... I think the empahsis should be on how to get all the things installed the for the first time. i.e promotion of tutorial like howtoforge tutorial (the perfect desktop) or maybe the creation of such tutorial more tareted at what students might need ...
On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 9:30 AM, Jean Azzopardi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > In the interests of avoiding a potential flame war on the MLUG list, > what benefits do you all think we should highlight for students? > > Speed & performance? -- very valid, especially when compared with Vista > - at least in my experience on a 2GB laptop with 1.66 ghz Core 2 Duo. > Vista runs pretty slowly, while on Linux I can run XP in a virtual > machine, give it 600 MB of RAM to play with and use the system normally > without much performance issues. > > Apart from that, I'm not really sure what can entice someone over to > Linux - I tried it out 5 years ago for a challenge, really, but I ended > up liking it a lot, so I stayed with it. Nowadays, my only exposure to > Windows was a brief stint with Vista to try it out, and I ended up > testing a few games on it - half of them didn't work right, too old > games, and I use XP in a Vbox for the MCTS course. > > The ideology? While I do like the ideology & philosophy behind open > source, I often do use proprietary software, especially when it's way > better than the open source equivalent - Nvidia drivers, for instance. > And sure, all the code is available...but does that mean anything to the > average student, especially those who aren't taking IT related courses? > > Cost? Is this an issue? Is there 1 single student out there who is so > honest that he's never pirated a piece of software in his life? I > frankly doubt it. And Windows comes preinstalled on 99% of laptops, anyway. > > Better applications? Again, most of the flagship OSS applications run > very well on Windows, sometimes better -- points at Firefox. Then > there's the whole gaming thing that we've already talked about, and > development, again, pretty much all the tools I use are either already > available on Windows -- or clones of Windows programs, or running under > wine in some cases. > > Security -- Ok, fine thing to point out, and Linux does have a clear > advantage over Windows - at least you don't have to run antivirus > software all the time, but there still is the possibility of downloading > malicious scripts from the internet. During my brief stint as moderator > on the Ubuntu forums, we caught and banned plenty of users who posted > scripts claiming to solve problems like installing codecs, or other > things, and were actually rather destructive. Sure, some of us are > capable of reading them and seeing if they are malicious, but how many > newbies are capable of doing that? > > > So here is the clincher... what can we do to entice users to simply even > try out Linux? How do we overcome that inertia? Personally, my approach > has been to recommend Linux only when somebody has problems with > Windows, or when somebody is eager to try out new things. I wouldn't > want to foist Linux on someone who is already quite happy with Windows - > these people do exist, you know? ;) > > Sorry for the long post, you caught me at an introspective moment ;) > > > Keith Vassallo wrote: > > Amen. > > > > Keith > > > > On 14 Nov 2008, at 22:41, Anton Xuereb wrote: > > > >> I know im gonna sound like a real spoil-sport but i feel that i need > >> to intervene as probably the most avid gamer on this list.. > >> > >> YOU ARE WRONG. > >> > >> I know that sounds harsh but im fed up with optimists trying to make > >> linux appear what it's not. It is completely pointless marketing > >> Linux as a gaming platform when graphics card drivers (both AMD/ATI > >> and Nvidia) are still so much lower in performance when compared to > >> their windows counter-parts. What you are running are cod2 and ET > >> servers which are of no interest to any gamer in Malta or anywhere. > >> Games like ET and CoD2 do NOT receive regular updates. ET hasn't > >> received anything for over a year and a half and the game is > >> practically dead in Malta except for a few stragglers who dont have > >> enough cash to upgrade their PCs. Don't get me wrong, I love both > >> CoD2 and ET however the fact remains that the games are neither > >> taxing on the hardware or recent. > >> > >> Secondly, only two of the games you mentioned has native linux > >> binaries which means we will have to run them through an abstractions > >> layer like Cedega or worse WINE. If you have tried running any sort > >> of game through wine you'll know that performance is never as good as > >> it's windows counter part and is no winning point in the argument of > >> why gamers should change over to Linux. > >> > >> Let me make a list: > >> > >> ET: Old and dying, none of the remaining tournaments are giving the > >> game much importance and too few clans are signing up, killing the > >> game even more. However this remains a good game that runs natively > >> on linux. > >> CoD2: No linux binaries and has to be run through an abstraction > >> layer resulting in lower performance and more problems (tried running > >> cod2 original with teh cd check on anyone ?) Dead abroad, still alive > >> in malta. ( Time to move on, CoD5 has been released :O ) > >> Counter strike: I guess you mean 1.6 here which is very old (although > >> still one of the most played games around the world) however it has > >> no native linux binaries and steam support on linux has been sketchy > >> at teh very best (I would know I installed it) > >> Unreal: Which one ? I'm guessing you mean UT2K4 here which does have > >> Linux binaries but runs with lower performance than it's windows > >> counterpart (probably due to lack of good gfx drivers) Of course you > >> might mean UT3 for which we were promised native linux binaries but > >> were never released due to "legal issues" Also both games have really > >> no value in Malta and abroad. > >> Doom and Quake 1/2/3 and to an extent 4: they all share some version > >> of the same engine (a very old precursor in q1/2/3) and a more recent > >> one in q4 and doom3. Good games but dead in Malta. > >> > >> WoW: It's funny, I installed WoW on my Linux and ran it.. It ran, for > >> around 30 seconds during which the game was slow and most if not all > >> of my graphics settings were reduced to a minimum. Try to target a > >> mob and it crashes. Love it > >> > >> So here I am, True Linux believer, evangelist and pure breed of Xion > >> (sorry scratch the last part) but also a hardcore gamer, Manager of > >> Project Eversio (http://www.eversio.info/about_us.php) and organiser > >> and Server Administrator of several prominent LAN parties in Malta > >> telling you that trying to show off gaming on Linux right now is a > >> very bad idea. I should be at CampusLAN with my pc running Arch Linux > >> (If i get xserver to run well again :O ) and I do have ET installed ( > >> and i can get painkiller running also ) and we can test some of my > >> points if you wish. Accept Linux for what it is, a great desktop > >> system, but not a gaming OS; Not until we get proper up to scratch > >> drivers that run well on Linux, and good support from game producers > >> for OpenGL with native Linux binaries will we be able to show off > >> Linux as a gaming platform. > >> > >> I rest my case and return to leveling my 71 orc Shaman. > >> > >> > >> Mewt > >> > >> > >> P.S. Sorry if I came out a bit strong, but i was stuck in a queue to > >> get into WoW and that's guaranteed to piss anyone off... > >> > >> On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 9:10 PM, Shawn Cassar <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote: > >> > >> First of all the games I mentioned aren't old games. > >> > >> In the company I work I'm one of the "heads" of our online gaming > >> department. We have 3 servers (running CentOS Linux) > >> specifically for COD2 players and till today we were discussing > >> to add another virtual machine since we aren't even keeping up > >> with the demand. > >> > >> Games like ET and COD2 have regular updates, and are highly > >> sought after. My idea with the LAN Party is that - maltese > >> gamers mostly play COD2 and ET. Foreign players tend to go more > >> towards ET and Counter Strike and Unreal. And all these run > >> native on Linux. > >> > >> Games like Doom and to a lesser extent Quake have lost their > >> heat, but it shouldn't be a problem getting those working. > >> ho run WoW and S > >> As for MMORPG I know many people wtar Wars Galaxies via WINE, and > >> EVE-Online has pseudo-native support through Cadega. > >> > >> The real hard part is getting a linux gaming rig in time for the > >> LAN Fest, assuming that ITSA executive committe members (not lan > >> admin committe like me, cause we are more or less helps) don't > >> mind...but I see Mr Marc Tanti is here so he could guide us :P > >> > >> In true madness spirit I sacrificed my Solaris Server (which I > >> use at home for self-learning mostly) and took out the HDD. So, > >> if you want this PC has 4GB Corsair Dominator RAM, 2.66GHz Quad > >> Core CPU and an ATI HD 25xx something gfx. If maybe during the > >> lan party we could get a > 160GB hdd we could even do a demo > >> install of linux and a particular FPS. > >> > >> We will further this discussion and other ideas at University on > >> Thursday hopefully, cause I don't want to trash the mailing list > >> (sorry :P ) > >> > >> Shawn > >> > >> > Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 08:08:14 +0100 > >> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> > >> > To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > >> > Subject: Re: [LINUX.ORG.MT <http://LINUX.ORG.MT>] Calling All > >> Uni Students > >> > > >> > Problem is...that "showing off" old games really isn't likely to > >> > impress users, isn't it? Sure, it's a rebuttal to the myth that > >> Linux > >> > cannot play any games at all, but it still exposes a weakpoint > >> in Linux, > >> > or a lack of quality - as you prefer ;) > >> > > >> > Still, at least you can still get your gaming fix on Linux, > >> which is a > >> > good thing. I also suggest Doom 3, Quake 4, Quake 3, maybe an > >> MMORPG or > >> > too..WoW should also run on wine - never tried it myself though. > >> > > >> > Shawn Cassar wrote: > >> > > Yep, agree on that, excellent idea. > >> > > > >> > > Also, it just struck me, the following weekend (21st - 23rd) > >> there is > >> > > the ITSA Lan Fest. Basically taking the idea of Ubuntu gamers > >> (and > >> > > SuSE gamers as well :P ) maybe we can ask some of the ITSA > >> committe > >> > > guys (in theory I'm part of the admin committe) so that we > >> can do a > >> > > linux install fest/linux gaming during the lan fest. > >> > > > >> > > Would be a great opportunity to actually get an idea of > >> gamers and > >> > > kind of games they would rather see on *nix systems. Maybe if we > >> > > could get an average gaming rig (nothing big, even something > >> with a > >> > > 1.6GHz and a 7200 GFX agp) and put linux on it, install a few > >> games > >> > > (such as ET, COD2, Unreal which run natively on linux) and > >> "show off" > >> > > gaming on linux. > >> > > > >> > > I'll try to bring it up during the meeting. > >> > > > >> > > Shawn > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> > > > >> > > Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 00:03:19 +0100 > >> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> > > To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > >> > > Subject: Re: [LINUX.ORG.MT <http://LINUX.ORG.MT>] Calling All > >> Uni Students > >> > > > >> > > Yep that would also be a good possibility, I forgot about > >> that (already). > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> > > Invite your mail contacts to join your friends list with > >> Windows Live > >> > > Spaces. It's easy! Try it! > >> > > > >> < > http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mkt=en-us > >> < > http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mkt=en-us > >> > >> > >> > > > >> > > > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> > > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > >> > > MLUG-list mailing list > >> > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > >> > > http://linux.org.mt/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mlug-list > >> > > > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > MLUG-list mailing list > >> > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > >> > http://linux.org.mt/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mlug-list > >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> Invite your mail contacts to join your friends list with Windows > >> Live Spaces. It's easy! Try it! > >> < > http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mkt=en-us > > > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> MLUG-list mailing list > >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > >> http://linux.org.mt/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mlug-list > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> MLUG-list mailing list > >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > >> http://linux.org.mt/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mlug-list > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > MLUG-list mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://linux.org.mt/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mlug-list > > > > _______________________________________________ > MLUG-list mailing list > [email protected] > http://linux.org.mt/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mlug-list >
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