If we could store images in a safe temporary place - e.g. a draft namespace or similar, I could imagine harnessing Wikigrok to crowd source the moderation problem.
Is this image a copyright violation? <link to explanation> Yes / No / No idea. On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 1:05 PM, Brian Gerstle <[email protected]> wrote: > Not to silence ideas (which are great), but similar to the "image cropping > in gather" thread, can we figure out what the extent of this problem is and > decide whether or not we want to solve it? Designing a solution for this > should involve prototyping anyway, IMO. Put another way: > > What's the ROI for more moderation tools, specific for images? > What features will be improved/enabled by these kinds of tools? > If we decide we should build something, how should we scope it? What's the > ideal solution? > > > On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 3:59 PM, Jan Ainali <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> 2015-04-15 20:51 GMT+02:00 Jon Robson <[email protected]>: >>> >>> >>> On 15 Apr 2015 11:34 am, "Jan Ainali" <[email protected]> wrote: >>> > >>> > Perhaps some serious thought should go into guiding the user in what an >>> > appropriate upload is rather than just make it super easy to upload the >>> > very >>> > first time? >>> We tried. This is a very very hard problem. Explaining copyright law is >>> difficult and no matter how many barriers we put in place the instant >>> gratification of having contributed something valuable overruled that. >> >> Did we ever try a non-skippable video? I guess if the comms team and legal >> team got involved such a video could be usable in a lot of other use cases >> too. >> >> /Jan Ainali >> >>> > >>> >>> > Tänk dig en värld där varje människa har fri tillgång till >>> > mänsklighetens samlade kunskap. Det är det vi gör. >>> > Bli medlem. >>> > >>> > >>> > 2015-04-15 20:16 GMT+02:00 Jon Robson <[email protected]>: >>> >> >>> >> On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 9:05 AM, Brian Gerstle >>> >> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >> >> Because Commons is afraid of the massive influx of selfies that >>> >> >> will then >>> >> >> have to be deleted, binding admin time and upsetting the uploader >>> >> >> (who is, >>> >> >> likely, not aware of the Commons policies). >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> As was said before in this thread, some filtering at the source >>> >> >> (smartphone) will have to be implemented to keep everyone sane >>> >> >> (YMMV). >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > I understand apps are focusing on readership at the moment, but are >>> >> > there >>> >> > any investigations figuring out how to scale contribution workflows >>> >> > and/or >>> >> > moderation? I appreciate that this is a difficult problem, and I >>> >> > hope we're >>> >> > putting earnest effort into figuring out how to mitigate or solve >>> >> > it. >>> >> > >>> >> > I'm just troubled by some of the language used here, and elsewhere, >>> >> > which >>> >> > describes a "fear" of more users. I can't help but wonder how many >>> >> > companies >>> >> > or services would readily welcome a "massive influx of users." How >>> >> > will >>> >> > Wikipedia or Commons succeed if we're afraid growth? >>> >> >>> >> +1. How we change this culture is the holy grail of Wikimedia's >>> >> future. Unless we change this, our project will die imo. I was really >>> >> saddened to see mobile uploads disappear from web - we had a lot of >>> >> spam yes but we also had people posting never before available photos >>> >> of diseases [1]. Our communities reaction seems to be to push back on >>> >> influxes of new edits which makes me feel we should be spending more >>> >> time on moderation tools - but so far I don't see any hint that this >>> >> will become a focus. This is a bigger problem than web and apps but so >>> >> far we see this more than most... I think this is something we'd have >>> >> to convince Lila is a good use of our time... >>> >> >>> >> [1] >>> >> http://wikimedia-l.wikimedia.narkive.com/AihmOoNe/mobile-image-upload >>> >> >>> >> > >>> >> > Also, aren't we dealing with this to a certain extent with >>> >> > Wikidata/Wikigrok? >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 11:23 AM, Jon Robson <[email protected]> >>> >> > wrote: >>> >> >> >>> >> >> There seems to be two things in conflict when dealing with anything >>> >> >> upload >>> >> >> related. >>> >> >> 1) uploading from a mobile phone is easy - that's a good thing >>> >> >> 2) uploading useful content to commons is difficult for most people >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Remember we made it super easy on web and we even limited who could >>> >> >> see it >>> >> >> but people still uploaded selfies and copyvios. IMO the copyvios >>> >> >> were an >>> >> >> attempt to be helpful. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> So I ask you what's more important - 1 or 2? The only really the >>> >> >> commons >>> >> >> app was a roaring success was the lack of its brand value as Amir >>> >> >> says most >>> >> >> "muggles" don't know what it is so this serves as a filter for >>> >> >> people that >>> >> >> use the app. Folding this functionality into a Wikipedia app would >>> >> >> make you >>> >> >> hit problem 2 and all the moderation problems associated with it. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> On 15 Apr 2015 4:54 am, "Amir E. Aharoni" >>> >> >> <[email protected]> >>> >> >> wrote: >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> > An Android Commons mobile app is probably the mandatory >>> >> >>> > catalisator for >>> >> >>> > hundreds of millions of people to participate to Commons. If you >>> >> >>> > have only >>> >> >>> > 300 unique users a month with an official Commons app, IMO the >>> >> >>> > only thing it >>> >> >>> > tells you is: the app is not good enough! >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> Muggles (no offense, honestly) don't know what "Commons" is. >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> Either we need to educate the world that Commons is an awesome >>> >> >>> repository >>> >> >>> of media that can compete with Flickr and Instagram, or we need to >>> >> >>> bundle it >>> >> >>> with the Wikipedia app, which a lot of people do have. >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> Facebook unbundled the Messenger app from the Facebook app, and >>> >> >>> millions >>> >> >>> hate it, but the same millions use it because they are hooked too >>> >> >>> strongly, >>> >> >>> and Facebook has a super-strong interest in hooking people to the >>> >> >>> Messenger >>> >> >>> (the most popular explanation is that they want to transition it >>> >> >>> to a >>> >> >>> payment processing app). >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> We are not in the business of hooking people, but in the business >>> >> >>> of >>> >> >>> sharing knowledge. I'd actually love the first thing to happen - >>> >> >>> to >>> >> >>> popularize the Commons as a truly free competitor to Flickr, etc. >>> >> >>> But at >>> >> >>> this point in time this appears to be a much higher-hanging fruit >>> >> >>> than >>> >> >>> adding easy image sharing functionality to the Wikipedia app. >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> > But, these numbers are not a surprise to me. I have tested >>> >> >>> > Commons *in >>> >> >>> > real conditions* a year ago in Africa and the result was: almost >>> >> >>> > impossible >>> >> >>> > to upload picture to Commons (but no problem to upload the same >>> >> >>> > pictures to >>> >> >>> > Tumblr). >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> I'm not sure that I understood: Is it because of server problems >>> >> >>> that we >>> >> >>> can fix, or because there is no app? >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> -- >>> >> >>> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי >>> >> >>> http://aharoni.wordpress.com >>> >> >>> “We're living in pieces, >>> >> >>> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >> >>> Mobile-l mailing list >>> >> >>> [email protected] >>> >> >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-l >>> >> >>> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> >> Mobile-l mailing list >>> >> >> [email protected] >>> >> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-l >>> >> >> >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > -- >>> >> > EN Wikipedia user page: >>> >> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Brian.gerstle >>> >> > IRC: bgerstle >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> -- >>> >> Jon Robson >>> >> * http://jonrobson.me.uk >>> >> * https://www.facebook.com/jonrobson >>> >> * @rakugojon >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> Mobile-l mailing list >>> >> [email protected] >>> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-l >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Mobile-l mailing list >>> > [email protected] >>> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-l >>> > >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Mobile-l mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-l >> > > > > -- > EN Wikipedia user page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Brian.gerstle > IRC: bgerstle -- Jon Robson * http://jonrobson.me.uk * https://www.facebook.com/jonrobson * @rakugojon _______________________________________________ Mobile-l mailing list [email protected] https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-l
