As much as an interesting topic this is. I was going to reply to Chris, but I will make this public.
Chris responded in a very professional manner, and was more polite than most that I have seen. However, I will agree that at times when you are looking for some understanding these lists are invaluable. I didn't like the fact that someone else may have had the same question, to only find that it was shut down. However, I love to self learn. And his politeness would have encouraged others to seek further information, in a polite manner. Not Rude at all. You Richard responded back with frustration, and I feel that frustration at times on many lists. Because too many do think they know and don't fully read the post. Then you may have a leg to stand on when it comes to getting help... But I am sorry I do feel what you said Richard, but your response back was RUDE. On Sat, Sep 13, 2008 at 4:39 AM, cs01rsw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > thanks for your response Adam, and totally true, i have also been > guilt of this in the past. > > on this occasion at the time of asking i had searched and couldnt find > any information in relation to what chris was discussing. i didnt even > know that it was a coldspring issue as opposed to a model glue issue. > its only when brian gave me a link to the coldspring documentation in > another link that i found the exact code that chris was discussed and > managed to find my answer > > it is not always clear to other people what level of understanding the > people asking the questions have, or what extent they have gone to in > order to find the problem - as it seemed to others like i was just > asking questions without researching. > > to add to your comment that the asker of the question should be > clearer on what he has done to find the question and what he is not > clear on (which i totally agree with, as having re-read the post i see > how it comes across like this), i would also add that the person > answering the question should assume that the asker has done their > research and maybe they are missing something. > > have you ever seen this scenario: the novice asks the expert a > question, the expert explains and the novice replies 'i dont > understand', the expert replies 'what dont you understand', the novice > replies 'i dont understand anything you just said', so the expert > replies 'what do you mean you dont understand anything i just said' - > they both get frustrated. > > i am in an environment where this sort of thing happens day in and day > out. my point is merely to add to your comments, and say yes i totally > agree with you that the novice needs to state exactly what they dont > understand or what they have done to find the answers for themselves, > i also think it is equally important that we also see the other side > of the coin, which is the expert understands that what may be very > simple to them may be extremely complicated for the novice. > > being a novice in terms of model glue and coldspring, i would like to > say that i totally appreciate everyones help. im sure we all received > this help in order to understand this excellent topic and i, like all > of us, are grateful for the time and effort of others, and I do not > intentionally lash out at others. i thought i had a right to defend > myself, just as Vicky and J thought they had a right to defend Chris. > but as is the problem with non-verbal communication there will always > be a possibility of mis-understanding > > thanks again to everyone for their input > > > > > > > On Sep 12, 5:36 pm, "Adam Tuttle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > For what it's worth Richard, you've started as many threads here on the > MG > > list in the last few days as there have been in previous months. It's > > generally a pretty low-traffic list -- hence Vicky's comment. (I am not > > implying that it should remain low-traffic or that increased traffic > should > > cause anyone any grief. Quite the contrary, volume should be whatever it > > needs to be, and people will adapt to suit their preferences. I'm just > > making a point.) > > Therefore, it's easy to come to the conclusion that you're asking to have > > the docs explained to you instead of reading them for yourself -- but to > > your credit, at least half of your threads have been either somewhat > deeply > > technical, or conceptual things that may not be well explained elsewhere > > (ie: your question about the getters and setters that you couldn't find > > being used; but they turned out to be the bits that CS needs to inject > > dependencies.) > > > > I have to say that I am frequently guilty of this myself. I will often > ask a > > peer if he know's Foo's phone extension (instead of looking it up in our > > phone directory), or "what was the url variable we picked to clear cached > > queries?" when I could have opened up the code and looked for myself. I'm > > sure everyone's been guilty of that at at least one point during their > > lives. > > > > For that reason, when asking for help (especially from mailing lists and > > support forums), I try to make it clear that I've googled my problem by > > providing links to things I've found that were close but not helpful > because > > of X; that I've read the documentation by linking to relevant docs and > > describing what may be missing or poorly explained; and lastly (if > > applicable, like in this situation) by giving code samples that aren't > > running as expected, that I just don't understand, or that otherwise > > demonstrate my problem. > > > > It's always good to give your own requests a healthy dose of criticism, > and > > besides showing that you've done the proper research, sometimes this > > approach will yield the answer. Many-a-email-draft and forum-posts have > been > > unsent and trashed because during the writing I've stumbled on my answer. > > > > And if nothing else, the quality of your posts will be very high, making > > them very answerable. :) > > > > </$0.02> > > > > Adam > > > > On Fri, Sep 12, 2008 at 12:07 PM, cs01rsw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > thanks j glad we sorted this out > > > > > good luck > > > > > richard > > > > > On Sep 12, 4:58 pm, Jared Rypka-Hauer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > As I am concerned you had barged into a ModelGlue list demanding an > > > > education in ColdSpring, OO architecture and design, ModelGlue and UI > > > > development and then spit in the face of one of the people who was > > > > most active in helping you. Apparently, it was a misunderstanding and > > > > I'm glad that it has been righted. Kudos to you for apologizing and > > > > making it right. > > > > > > I should have said something more like "Dude, Chris was only trying > > > > to help, seriously, that's not what he meant" rather than jumping > > > > directly to invective. I was pissed... someone had impugned my friend > > > > who was trying to help them, and I was trying to make a point: If > > > > you're going to spit in the face of your helpers, go learn to help > > > > yourself. That was, and is, my only point, and it still stands even > > > > if it no longer applies in this situation. > > > > > > So, apparently you and I have had our own misunderstanding, for which > > > > I apologize. I was unclear in my response to your assault on Chris. > > > > It had nothing to do with patience, your level of knowledge or > > > > anything else. It had to do exclusively with your reaction to someone > > > > who was putting in every effort to assist you and receiving your > > > > scorn in return. > > > > > > Anyone who knows me knows I can be an arrogant dickhead, but that I > > > > am also reasonable and more than willing to make things right where I > > > > was wrong. I regret that our first encounter was of this nature and > > > > that I chose to respond the way I did. Please accept my apology for > > > > being quick to react. > > > > > > Hopefully we can all just get along and play nice now... us "so- > > > > called experts" lose patience so easily one never knows what might > > > > happen if these shenanigans continue. ;) > > > > > > J > > > > > > On Sep 12, 2008, at 10:03 AM, cs01rsw wrote: > > > > > > > there is a common belief amongst the so called experts that they > get > > > > > frustrated with people who may not know as much, and also their > egos > > > > > stretch to unbelievable heights. the good thing about the cf > community > > > > > is that i rarely see this. the cf community really seems to be > there > > > > > to help people no matter what their experience level, or questions. > > > > > > > people giving advice also need to learn to take it and not be too > > > > > hostile - not mentioned any names (j), and the so called experts > need > > > > > understand that cultures are different and the nature of people is > > > > > different, and that sometimes advice may not get across in the way > > > > > that it is meant. ... > > > -- Senior Coldfusion Developer Aegeon Pty. 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