I speak only for myself. There was a period of time where I was very active in the forums. As 1.2 was approaching I saw the best place to contribute was taking an active role with "support". I love helping people, I enjoy sharing code and ideas.
While there was a "read before you post" message. This was largely ignored by a majority of the posters. For a long time I gave people the benefit of the doubt, providing code snippets, resources and time. This usually lead to more questions like "can you write this?". If I was lucky to get sample code from the user it was usually work related. The common theme that came across to me was a general lack of respect for not following the rules and putting effort forth, a general attitude of "you need to support me". This has a tendency to leave a bad taste in your mouth. Mootools is a gift, no one is getting paid. Perusing through the code you begin to realize the intense amount of background knowledge and theory that goes into every line of code, years and years of experience given to you for free. The core team is truly talented. More importantly with software development they are extremely focused and disciplined and have kept the vision and purpose clear. My "script kiddies" comment above may have been a tad out of line considering the current state of affairs and the arguments that are still taking place. I want to clarify that I am still more then happy to help anyone provided they show some effort. I think the mootools community as a whole is extremely receptive to helping others. To me it appears the issues arise when individuals inject into the community the way things should or shouldn't be done. When a direction has been made clear from day 1 these remarks are at best naive, at worse offensive. Being pushed into a corner, one generally pushes back. With the migration to the google-groups I still see troubleshooting questions asked, and many of them are responded to in very fast time frames. The difference, the people asking now are really trying. They are identifying what they are trying to do and where they are getting stuck. Users like this will only help the community to grow and mature as mootools grows they grow. I think part of the perceived "attitude" problem stems from Moo.Fx being incredibly successful. The interface was so smart and slick that it attracted a very large audience. Attached were all the negative connotations of Web 2.0. As a developing framework it was not in its best interest to cater to all. As most of these users are fickle and will throw their loyalty to the wind for the next buzzword. So I feel it was wise for the framework to concentrate on the core of the community, there is a very strong foundation here. On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 10:02 PM, tombmedia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > And I've been to the mooforum, and nabble. It's not bad. Paradigm > shift, old dog, new tricks, etc. It is something everyone can migrate > to. > > This isn't, and I stress, IS NOT a code, forum or groups issue. It is > an attitude problem. Plain and simple. > > On Sep 17, 5:30 am, Tom Occhino <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Thank you Nathan and Guillermo. > > > > It seems it's hard for the others to realize that the code is what's > > important, and I feel like no matter what we do or say, it will never > > be good enough for some. I am certain this topic is long from dead, > > and i will have to address 'when are the forums coming back' at least > > 25 more times in the next 6 months. Oh well, such is life... > > > > - Tom > > > > On Sep 17, 2008, at 5:48 AM, Nathan White wrote: > > > > > > > > > Wake up people! Its evolution. The forum was too accessible, way too > > > many script kiddies asking for help when they had no proper > > > foundation in javascript removing precious resources from mootools. > > > Tom posted earlier how he likes the direction of the site and how it > > > caters to developers. Let's respect that. > > > > > If its so bad look at the other frameworks. Jquery and Prototype use > > > google groups. > > > > > Yes we all get email but there are ways to manage it. I love having > > > the discussions this way, I am more on top of what is going on with > > > less effort. The only thing I could possibly see down the road is > > > having multiple mail lists. > > > > > On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 11:19 PM, Jeremy B <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > " the elite > > > don't care about the people. > > > > > And seriously, a happyface at the end of an email doesn't hide the > > > elitist attitude the spews from the mootools crew. All hail mootools > > > they hath spoken. (sorry for sandbagging all the nice ones)" ... > > > > > this is just stupid bullshit at this point ... elite ... elitist... > > > > > come on ... > > > > > :) > > > Jeremy > > > > > On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 8:02 PM, Guillermo Rauch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > wrote: > > > Solutions to your problem: > > > - If you get too much correspondence: Abridged / Digest subscription > > > type of Google Groups > > > - If you don't like what Google Groups looks like: Nabble (forums- > > > like interface to a mailing list) > > > - If you want a full-fledged bulletin board: Mooforum > > > > > Enough has been said on this topic. Let's move on > > > > > On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 11:57 PM, tombmedia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > wrote: > > > > > Valerio, > > > > > I'd just like to maybe inject this one little thought. What happens if > > > we don't subscribe to the mailing list and come to the actual groups > > > webpage to find help or new information. That is the advantage of a > > > forum and the pain a lot of people are facing when coming here for the > > > first time. It took me a while to think about joining, but after a > > > while I stopped the email being sent to me. I get enough email, as I'm > > > sure everyone else on the internet can attest to. > > > > > That is why when I continue to ask about the state of things and I get > > > answers like just setup a filter I wonder if you guys really > > > understand peoples issues. > > > > > If anyone out there wants to take the mootools code and make a > > > commercial product out of it, so that I can pay for better support > > > than mootools provides, please do so. I know a lot of people who > > > would. At this point mootools seems as viable as wall street. Sure its > > > got a solid foundation, but take a look at what happens when the elite > > > don't care about the people. > > > > > And seriously, a happyface at the end of an email doesn't hide the > > > elitist attitude the spews from the mootools crew. All hail mootools > > > they hath spoken. (sorry for sandbagging all the nice ones) > > > > > -- > > > Guillermo Rauch > > >http://devthought.com >
