When Valerio and I discussed adding -more it was, to my recollection, to do
two things: 1) to promote plugins authored by the dev team as official,
supported, documented, tested plugins. Illustrating what you can do with
MooTools and providing more functionality than what we wanted to release
with Core. Keep in mind that we used to have Accordion and Drag and all that
other stuff when MooTools was only a single library. By handing these things
off, and pulling in stuff that I'd been releasing on Clientcide, we tripled
the size of the library and provided a lot of functionality. 2) We wanted to
provide a library that was more feature rich than Core. Looking at 1.3 and
2.0, there aren't really any new features; just new abstractions. Obviously
this stuff is very valuable - more valuable than anything in More
specifically *because *they are highly abstract. But the stuff that makes
the library seem easy to use are often the higher level stuff like Drag or
Accordion (as much as we tend to hate it).

Looking at Google Analytics, the docs for More are hit in this order of
descending popularity:

Fx - 23% of pages
Interface - 13%
Forms - 12%
Drag - 11.5%
Element - 11%
Native - 9%
Utilities - 5%
Core - 4.5%
Class - 4%
Request - 3%

Consider that the top of that list are all less abstract than the bottom
portion. Core, Native, Class, etc, are less popular than Fx and Interface.
That should tell you something about how this stuff is used. Here are the
top individual docs pages:

Fx.Slide
Fx.Accordion
Form.Validator
Fx.Scroll
Drag
Tips

As for the list of stuff Oskar doesn't ever use, oddly, he listed a lot of
the stuff I DO use. From his list, I've bolded the ones I use very
frequently:


   - Lang
   - Log
   - *Depender* (not the JS version; the server version, so this doesn't
   really count; note that we're dropping it in the next release)
   - Date.Extras
   - *URI*
   - URI.Relative
   - *Element.Forms*
   - Form.Request.Append
   - *OverText*
   - Fx.Move
   - Request.Queue
   - Request.Periodical
   - Color
   - Group
   - *HtmlTable*
   - *HtmlTable.Zebra*
   - *HtmlTable.Sort*
   - *HtmlTable.Select*
   - *Mask*

I use Spinner like it's going out of style. Element.Delegation is a must
have. I don't use Element.Position much, but when I need it it's a god-send.
Form.Request is probably the thing I use more than anything else (except
maybe delegation). Fx.Reveal is the kind of easy to use effect that makes
libraries like jQuery popular...

There's stuff in -more that I never use - like Local - that just need to be
there. Having Date.js when you need it saves a ton of time (god I hate
working with dates). But expecting all the plugins to be useful to everyone
isn't realistic.

Instead, think of -more as a tag - that these plugins are by us and that we
maintain them together.

Splitting -more up into numerous repos won't really change any of these
things. It'll just make it easier to maintain. Adding Scroller is a fine
idea when we make that move.

-aaron

On Sat, Sep 25, 2010 at 3:00 PM, Christoph Pojer
<[email protected]>wrote:

> I have about ten plugins on github which I I'll release as a
> collection too once 1.3 is out. There is no point having a billion
> plugins inside of one repository. I mean that was the whole point of
> the forge anyways.
>
> On Sep 25, 10:23 pm, Oskar Krawczyk <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Too bad there are no statistics. I'm 99% sure people don't even use half
> of those classes.
> >
> > I'll just go ahead with my old plan end create MooTools-extras.
> >
> > Moving on.
> >
> > On 2010-09-25, at 20:33, Christoph Pojer wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > I can tell you that I have used everything of More other the UI stuff
> > > that didn't exist in the original MooTools before the separation.
> >
> > > We have a huge library with plenty of functionality, just because you
> > > don't use something doesn't mean no one does.
> >
> > > Locale, Date.Extras, URI + URI.Relative and Element.Forms are among
> > > the most useful plugins that *I* use in every project, just as an
> > > example. Locale is pretty damn awesome. Validator is going to get an
> > > overhaul "soon" (and then I will definitely use it too).
> >
> > > You were the one who initially suggested adding a scrollbar-plugin to
> > > More, yet you dislike lots of plugins you have never used. Scrollbar
> > > stuff is quite trivial. Just because I use my own scrollbar
> > > implementation in some projects doesn't mean I think it is a good idea
> > > to put it into More.
> >
> > > @Aaron what do you think about putting your Scroller into a repo on
> > > GitHub and see how it does? I'd love that as a first step, rather than
> > > just adding More stuff (oh snap!).
> >
> > > On Sep 25, 3:57 pm, Oskar Krawczyk <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >> This isn't a good idea IMO.
> >
> > >> -more was always a set of most used plugins, this always was the core
> idea of having a -more pluggable, so I don't need to go through the Forge
> and download Sortables/Slider/Keyboard.
> >
> > >> That said, through the years of working with MooTools (since version
> 0.9 - it didn't even had the MooTools object back then), I can compile a
> list of -more Classes that I never use:
> >
> > >> Lang
> > >> Log
> > >> Depender
> > >> Date.Extras
> > >> URI
> > >> URI.Relative
> > >> Element.Forms
> > >> Form.Request.Append
> > >> OverText
> > >> Fx.Move
> > >> Request.Queue
> > >> Request.Periodical
> > >> Color
> > >> Group
> > >> HtmlTable
> > >> HtmlTable.Zebra
> > >> HtmlTable.Sort
> > >> HtmlTable.Select
> > >> Mask
> >
> > >> I'm sure I'm not the only one who doesn't use these.
> >
> > >> I know Aaron had put a lot of hours in getting them into -more, but to
> me, it's just bloating the final compilation with stuff that people don't
> use - and believe me when I say, 95% of people using more-builder just
> checks all classes, and not only the ones that they eventually will be
> using.
> >
> > >> Also, Validation/Locales doesn't seem to me like "low level" stuff.
> It's an addition, to Date/etc. I've seen your work on the new Locales class,
> great job, but again, how many people actually use Locale, 5%?
> >
> > >> O.
> >
> > >> On 2010-09-25, at 12:59, Arian wrote:
> >
> > >>> Like Aaron said the plan is to separate UI components out of -more
> for
> > >>> the next major release after 1.3 (probably 2.0) and focus more on
> > >>> lower level stuff (Drag/Locale/Validation/Types extensions/...) while
> > >>> moving UI stuff to the Forge. So although it is a pretty nice plugin
> I
> > >>> don't really feel like including this in -more.
> >
> > >>> On 25 sep, 01:40, hartum <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >>>> Mooscroller FTW!!!
> >
> > >>>> On 24 sep, 21:12, Oskar Krawczyk <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > >>>>> Out of curiosity, how many of you good folks would like to see
> MooScroller (
> http://www.clientcide.com/wiki/cnet-libraries/08-layout/02-mooscroller) in
> -more 1.3?
> >
> > >>>>> -more has a lot of classes that I never use, but this one is the
> one I keep downloading from Clientcide, because -more is missing it.
> >
> > >>>>> Any chance of adding it to 1.3?
>

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