Ok David - and Mopo I apologize if I was to hard on David and Others
on Mopo . I may have responded
to hard because im getting cranky ... so I wish all well as its tough
being in business and we all need to help each other not have arguments
and diversion and take adversarial positions.
perhaps the Truth is a combo of all of us. and all opinions..... that
makes sense to me...
I didnt mean to be so harsh, I reacted beause you made it sound so
finite .. as to the source and history of events
I will offer to help anyone that can assemble the samples and would
like a opinion..
like Bruce , You or anyone on the list..... matter of fact it would be a
great test to see if I could spot a fake
after 30 years myself... because for me I could never tell off a photo
jpeg alone.
So if we meet David I promice Ill Buy You a Tuna fish sandwich and the
Guys some iced tea or coffee
and some sandwiches also....
sound fair..?
I actually have been impressed with your salesmanship on t Poster itles
and I know how hard it can be to run a business, so keep it up.
best To You and family.s
Tom
David Lieberman wrote:
I repeat:
they were printed several years after the films were originally released.
for some of the titles they used the same "plates".........if they
were available. Some were, some weren't.
some of them were made using the same printing "elements"..........so
they are sort of restrikes.......
so whether you want to call them restrikes, sort of restrikes,
reprints, repros...........whatever.........it isn't really that
important........what is important is that they are NOT original.
it is totally plausible that the bad guys bought a few thousand of
each for just pennies a piece directly from the source 20+ years
ago......and that they still have plenty of them left.
A few months ago I personally acquired 600 of the FAKE star wars style
c one sheets (which I gave one away for free to anyone who wanted one
a few months ago...permanently marked as FAKE).....and my source still
has another roll of 300 in her closet. So my point is that these fakes
were produced in MASS quantities and it is totally plausible that the
bad guys still have stacks of them even after all these years.
I do not think they are still printing the inserts..........but that
is just my opinion......and anything is possible........they could
possibly still be making them, but I would be very surprised if they were.
as for the minty white lobby card sets.......its probably a similar
kind of story except that it is a little more plausible (in my
opinion) that they are still printing them.......
David Lieberman
CineMasterpieces.com <http://www.cinemasterpieces.com/> | 15721 N.
Greenway Hayden Loop, Suite 105 -- Scottsdale, Az 85260
Vintage Original Movie Posters | 602 309 0500 | Office/Gallery Open By
Appt. Only.
In a message dated 10/12/2009 10:28:28 P.M. US Mountain Standard Tim,
[email protected] writes:
David,
You could be right about an employee of the print shop doing
restrikes after hours using the same press, plates and paper as
the genuine strikes. But, in that case, they aren't really "fakes"
at all, are they? Since they are 100% identical to those inserts
which were printed by the same employee during regular business
hours? What makes them fake -- the fact that they were printed
after hours but nothing else? No, that doesn't float. If there's
no way to identify a difference between with a microscope or
chemical paper analysis, then it's not viable to say "well this
one was printed after hours and so it is a fake even though it is
100% physically identical to this original one over here, which
was printed 6 hours earlier during regular business hours."
Now if there is a subtle difference in image size or area, a
slight difference of text placement, etc., then you've got
something to work with. But why would a restrike from a genuine
original plate have a different image size or text position? It
wouldn't. The only way that would happen is if someone used a
genuine original poster for their artwork in the plate-making
process and had to zoom and crop it a tiny bit to make it work (or
were just sloppy and didn't notice they had cropped the artwork a
tiny bit). So restrikes don't work for me as an explanation if
there is a difference in image size, area, text placement or
"fuzziness" of printing. With a restrike from original plates you
would have none of that.
The big thing that made people start wondering about the Mintys
was the fact that certain specific sellers seemed to have a
unlimited supply of inserts for certain titles -- and the use of
inserts was fading away at the time these films were released and
fewer inserts were being officially printed than in earlier
decades. So, having an unlimited supply to sell is a big red flag
(thus their "warehouse find" cover story). But unlimited supply
doesn't fit in with your employee-after-hours-restrikes theory
because surely the guy doesn't still work for that 1970's or
1980's print shop and surely the plates are still not available to
him, much less the original type of paper?
How come they haven't run out of the restrikes? What, this
after-hours guy printed up thousands of these restrikes for this
very odd variety of titles back in the late 70s and early 80s and
then held onto them all these years waiting for EBay to be
invented so he could dump them on the market? Doesn't compute. The
"warehouse find" explanation actually seems more likely to me than
that, and I don't buy the warehouse find explanation.
If they were restrikes made 20- to 30- odd years ago, surely the
original restrike print run would have been exhausted by now?
This leads me to suspect that most of the Mintys, if not all, were
not restrikes from original plates but just very good quality
printing plates made using genuine original posters as the artwork
for the plate making process -- and I suspect new inventory is
still being printed (or could be printed).
-- JR
David Lieberman wrote:
how many times do we have to discuss this same topic? ;)
The "minty white" inserts were printed in the mid to late 1980's.
They are "unauthorized" restrikes. They were most likely done
"after hours" at the same place the originals were printed years
before (at one of the nss printing facilities).....that is why
the quality is just as good as the originals.........that is why
they fooled so many people......and that is why they still fool
people today. Some are virtually identical with the same art
cropping etc., and some have the artwork slightly cropped.
The list of titles is on our website.....some of these fake
inserts include: a clockwork orange -X rated, jaws, star wars,
esb, rotj, scarface, blade runner, manhattan.
There were also several unauthorized restrike one sheets printed
around the same time. They probably came from the same source as
the minty white inserts (at least that's my humble opinion!). The
manhattan style b 1sh, fast times 1sh, rocky horror 1sh, star
wars a,b,c one sheets.....as well as several others.
We have done several comparisons side by side and have close ups
of some of them (not all) on our site. They aren't all in one
place though on the website. Some of them (like scarface and
manhattan) we haven't done only because we haven't had a fake one
and a real one in stock at the same time so we could compare them
side by side.
Anybody who thinks the minty white inserts are "real".....is flat
out wrong.
David Lieberman
CineMasterpieces.com <http://www.cinemasterpieces.com/> | 15721
N. Greenway Hayden Loop, Suite 105 -- Scottsdale, Az 85260
Vintage Original Movie Posters | 602 309 0500 | Office/Gallery
Open By Appt. Only.
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