Found it. So it appears that Paypal regulations are indeed different in the US, and US sellers actually get screwed worse than sellers from Germany.
I did not know that, and since it's the same company, it is quite a surprise. So I guess I'll have to see this matter in a different light now. Helmut > I directly posted it and copied it two days ago. Go back and look at the MOPO > e-mails. FRANC > -----Original Message----- > From: MoPo List [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Helmut Hamm > Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 9:25 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [MOPO] PayPal Seller Protection > > Could somebody from the US (and from the US only!) look up the actual Paypal > Seller Protection Policy? > > I meanwhile get the feeling that the Paypal rules for the US are different > from the regulation we have in Germany. > > When I call up > > https://cms.paypal.com/de/cgi-bin/?cmd=_render-content&content_ID=ua/SellerProtection_full&locale.x=en_US > > I'm not sure if this page can be accessed from the US, so I have posted the > important chapters below. To me it CLEARLY states proof of SHIPMENT, however > Paypal have completely different rules in the US: > > 1. General. > > PayPal protects the recipient of a payment made by a customer (the “payment > recipient”) from the following cases, provided the requirements mentioned > under Clause 2 and 3 have been met ("seller protection"). > > 1.1. Reversals of bank account payments; including all risks of direct > debiting (non sufficient funds, unauthorized access, returns). > > 1.2. Chargebacks from credit card payments. > > 1.3. Reversals due to unjustified claims under the terms of PayPal Buyer > Protection or the PayPal Standard Buyer Complaint Process. > > 1.4. Chargebacks from payments not authorized by the owner of the PayPal > account. > > Seller protection only applies if the reversal or credit card chargeback was > issued against you for the reason > > the payment was unauthorised or > reversal or credit card chargeback or PayPal Buyer Protection claims are due > to the buyer not receiving the item. > where PayPal receives from you proof that the item was posted in accordance > with the requirements set forth in Section 4 below, subject to the further > provision of this PayPal Seller Protection Policy (including, without > limitation, the Eligibility Requirements at Section 3). > > There is no seller protection if reason of the reversal or chargeback is that > the item was not as described. > > PayPal will restrict the access of the payment recipient to the payment > amount whenever a buyer issues a credit card chargeback or a bank account > reversal, or files a claim under the terms of PayPal Buyer Protection or a > PayPal Standard Buyer Complaint claim, or when payments not authorized by the > owner of the PayPal account have been made. In this case, the seller has no > access to the payment amount. > > This means that the payment amount will display as negative balance in the > PayPal account of the payment recipient, who temporarily will not be able to > access the payment amount. > > PayPal will lift this temporary hold when the requirements for seller > protection set out below have been met. > > ... > > 4. Proof of shipment. > 4.1. General. The payment recipient proofs the shipment of an item by > providing an online tracking number of an independent shipping service or a > shipping receipt issued by an independent shipping service, which may be > uploaded via the PayPal website. In certain cases, providing an online > tracking number will not suffice, so the payment recipient will be requested > to provide a shipping receipt. > > 4.2. Valid proof of shipment. PayPal accepts any proof of shipment as long as > the following information is included: > > 4.2.1. Name of the shipping service > > 4.2.2. Shipping date > > 4.2.3. Name and address of the recipient. > > This information must match the address shown on the Transaction Details > page. > > 4.2.4. Name and address of the sender. > > This information must match the seller’s address. > > 4.2.5. Tracking Number (optional) > > Subsequently, here is a non-conclusive list of shipping services we accept to > issue proof of shipment based on the requirements set out previously. > > Deutsche Post AG / DHL (except for small parcels without proof of shipping > and letters (letters include consignment, bookpost and Maxibrief formats) > > GLS > DPD > Hermes > UPS > FedEx > TNT > > In addition, shipping receipts of registered mail (Einschreiben) by Deutsche > Post AG are also accepted as proof of shipment, provided the following > information is included: > > Shipping date > Name of the recipient > The name of the recipient must match the name shown on the Transaction > Details page. > > 4.3. Transactions not exceeding €25 EUR. Proof of shipment may not be > required if the payment amount does not exceed 25.00 EUR. PayPal waives the > requirement of providing proof of shipment up to ten times within six months > based on a calendar year. > > > > Am 20.12.2011 um 19:46 schrieb Franc: > >> The other item Helmut has omitted in his discussion below is that as a >> purchaser Buyer using PayPal, one is always protected in the case of >> non-delivery no matter the reason. The seller however is not. Hence when >> buying, of course it makes sense to pay only for Air Mail International. In >> the event this package is not received , the buyer can always receive a >> PayPal refund. Not so with the seller. The seller is royally screwed by Ebay >> and PayPal unless a proof of delivery can be provided and so far Priority >> International and Express International are the only services offerred by >> USPS that provides absolute proof of delivery. I'm currently testing >> Stamps.com to see if International Air Mail tracking is provided and so far >> I've received no tracking on any of the International Air Mail packages I've >> shipped through them. I'll keep you posted on this. FRANC >> -----Original Message----- >> From: MoPo List [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Richard >> Halegua Posters + Comic Art >> Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 1:01 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [MOPO] PayPal Seller Protection >> >> Helmut the one thing you do not mention, and that most people are not aware >> of, but I am because we send so many packages, is that anything over 4 lbs >> to overseas destinations can only be shipped by Priority Mail. >> >> it adds alot to the cost of a package.. but we can't do anything about it >> unless we ship by UPS, which costs even more!! >> >> no doubt that shipping costs are a tremendous deterrent to some people when >> bidding and ultimately, they bid less to balance out shipping costs. >> it's like adding a seller's fee to every poster as it comes out of my results >> >> Rich >> >> At 03:01 AM 12/20/2011, Helmut Hamm wrote: >>> I'm a dealer myself, so I can obviously understand any seller's aggravation >>> when a package gets lost, and I'm certainly the last person who has >>> anything positive to say about Paypal... >>> >>> However, when it comes to shipping costs, I RECEIVE at the very least 100 >>> international packages every year, most likely a lot more. 100 packages >>> sent with First Class Mail International would cost me about $12 each, >>> $1,200 total. The same 100 packages shipped PRIORITY MAIL, at a cost of >>> about $24 each would result in $2,400 in total shipping costs. That's >>> roughly $1,200 in additional shipping costs in a single year alone. >>> >>> I like to have a tracking number for really expensive items, but even with >>> items of $100 value, I could afford to LOSE almost a dozen packages, or >>> more than 10% (!!!!) of my incoming mail, and without ever filing for a >>> refund, I would STILL be a couple of hundreds bucks ahead. Now my ACTUAL >>> loss rate is WAY UNDER 1%. Postal services may be slow, but sooner or >>> later, almost anything tends to show up again. >>> >>> For me, the math is pretty simple: Using Priority Mail all the way would >>> cost me a four-digit amount extra every year, so instead, all I ask from >>> the seller is a proof of shipment, and IN RETURN I agree to cover the risk >>> of a possible loss. >>> >>> On the other hand, if I'm made to pay for Priority Mail, I will of course >>> use any chance Paypal gives me to get my money back. (I currently have a >>> Priority package that should have been shipped about six weeks ago, about >>> $400 value, and the seller says he's lost the tracking number. Although I'm >>> pretty optimistic that it'll show up eventually, I will of course file a >>> claim with Paypal in this case.) >>> >>> Helmut >>> >>> >>>> Well, maybe whomever you got at PayPal was more charitable to you than the >>>> person I contacted, who told me in no uncertain terms that the customs >>>> label can not be used for either tracking or proof of shipment. This >>>> occurred two months ago and I was out about $300 in revenue. If you input >>>> an international customs # into the USPS website, all you get is a >>>> certification indicating that the package was presented to the Post Office >>>> in your origin city and no delivery information whatsoever. FRANC >>> >>> Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com >>> ___________________________________________________________________ >>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List >>> Send a message addressed to: [email protected] >>> In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L >>> The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. >> Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com >> ___________________________________________________________________ >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List >> Send a message addressed to: [email protected] >> In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L >> The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. >> >> Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com >> ___________________________________________________________________ >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List >> Send a message addressed to: [email protected] >> In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L >> The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. >> > > Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com > ___________________________________________________________________ > How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List > Send a message addressed to: [email protected] > In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L > The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. > > Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com > ___________________________________________________________________ > How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List > Send a message addressed to: [email protected] > In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L > The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. > Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___________________________________________________________________ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [email protected] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
