It might have to do with government regulations that are in place in Germany and other European countries which are more favorable to the consumer than in the US. FRANC
-----Original Message----- From: MoPo List [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Helmut Hamm Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 12:35 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [MOPO] PayPal Seller Protection Found it. So it appears that Paypal regulations are indeed different in the US, and US sellers actually get screwed worse than sellers from Germany. I did not know that, and since it's the same company, it is quite a surprise. So I guess I'll have to see this matter in a different light now. Helmut I directly posted it and copied it two days ago. Go back and look at the MOPO e-mails. FRANC -----Original Message----- From: MoPo List [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Helmut Hamm Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 9:25 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [MOPO] PayPal Seller Protection Could somebody from the US (and from the US only!) look up the actual Paypal Seller Protection Policy? I meanwhile get the feeling that the Paypal rules for the US are different from the regulation we have in Germany. When I call up https://cms.paypal.com/de/cgi-bin/?cmd=_render-content <https://cms.paypal.com/de/cgi-bin/?cmd=_render-content&content_ID=ua/Se llerProtection_full&locale.x=en_US> &content_ID=ua/SellerProtection_full&locale.x=en_US I'm not sure if this page can be accessed from the US, so I have posted the important chapters below. To me it CLEARLY states proof of SHIPMENT, however Paypal have completely different rules in the US: 1. General. PayPal protects the recipient of a payment made by a customer (the “payment recipient”) from the following cases, provided the requirements mentioned under Clause 2 and 3 have been met ("seller protection"). 1.1. Reversals of bank account payments; including all risks of direct debiting (non sufficient funds, unauthorized access, returns). 1.2. Chargebacks from credit card payments. 1.3. Reversals due to unjustified claims under the terms of PayPal Buyer Protection or the PayPal Standard Buyer Complaint Process. 1.4. Chargebacks from payments not authorized by the owner of the PayPal account. Seller protection only applies if the reversal or credit card chargeback was issued against you for the reason * the payment was unauthorised or * reversal or credit card chargeback or PayPal Buyer Protection claims are due to the buyer not receiving the item. where PayPal receives from you proof that the item was posted in accordance with the requirements set forth in Section 4 below, subject to the further provision of this PayPal Seller Protection Policy (including, without limitation, the Eligibility Requirements at Section 3). There is no seller protection if reason of the reversal or chargeback is that the item was not as described. PayPal will restrict the access of the payment recipient to the payment amount whenever a buyer issues a credit card chargeback or a bank account reversal, or files a claim under the terms of PayPal Buyer Protection or a PayPal Standard Buyer Complaint claim, or when payments not authorized by the owner of the PayPal account have been made. In this case, the seller has no access to the payment amount. This means that the payment amount will display as negative balance in the PayPal account of the payment recipient, who temporarily will not be able to access the payment amount. PayPal will lift this temporary hold when the requirements for seller protection set out below have been met. ... 4. Proof of shipment. 4.1. General. The payment recipient proofs the shipment of an item by providing an online tracking number of an independent shipping service or a shipping receipt issued by an independent shipping service, which may be uploaded via the PayPal website. In certain cases, providing an online tracking number will not suffice, so the payment recipient will be requested to provide a shipping receipt. 4.2. Valid proof of shipment. PayPal accepts any proof of shipment as long as the following information is included: 4.2.1. Name of the shipping service 4.2.2. Shipping date 4.2.3. Name and address of the recipient. This information must match the address shown on the Transaction Details page. 4.2.4. Name and address of the sender. This information must match the seller’s address. 4.2.5. Tracking Number (optional) Subsequently, here is a non-conclusive list of shipping services we accept to issue proof of shipment based on the requirements set out previously. 1. Deutsche Post AG / DHL (except for small parcels without proof of shipping and letters (letters include consignment, bookpost and Maxibrief formats) 2. GLS 3. DPD 4. Hermes 5. UPS 6. FedEx 7. TNT In addition, shipping receipts of registered mail (Einschreiben) by Deutsche Post AG are also accepted as proof of shipment, provided the following information is included: 1. Shipping date 2. Name of the recipient The name of the recipient must match the name shown on the Transaction Details page. 4.3. Transactions not exceeding €25 EUR. Proof of shipment may not be required if the payment amount does not exceed 25.00 EUR. PayPal waives the requirement of providing proof of shipment up to ten times within six months based on a calendar year. Am 20.12.2011 um 19:46 schrieb Franc: The other item Helmut has omitted in his discussion below is that as a purchaser Buyer using PayPal, one is always protected in the case of non-delivery no matter the reason. The seller however is not. Hence when buying, of course it makes sense to pay only for Air Mail International. In the event this package is not received , the buyer can always receive a PayPal refund. Not so with the seller. The seller is royally screwed by Ebay and PayPal unless a proof of delivery can be provided and so far Priority International and Express International are the only services offerred by USPS that provides absolute proof of delivery. I'm currently testing Stamps.com <http://Stamps.com/> to see if International Air Mail tracking is provided and so far I've received no tracking on any of the International Air Mail packages I've shipped through them. I'll keep you posted on this. FRANC -----Original Message----- From: MoPo List [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Richard Halegua Posters + Comic Art Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 1:01 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [MOPO] PayPal Seller Protection Helmut the one thing you do not mention, and that most people are not aware of, but I am because we send so many packages, is that anything over 4 lbs to overseas destinations can only be shipped by Priority Mail. it adds alot to the cost of a package.. but we can't do anything about it unless we ship by UPS, which costs even more!! no doubt that shipping costs are a tremendous deterrent to some people when bidding and ultimately, they bid less to balance out shipping costs. it's like adding a seller's fee to every poster as it comes out of my results Rich At 03:01 AM 12/20/2011, Helmut Hamm wrote: I'm a dealer myself, so I can obviously understand any seller's aggravation when a package gets lost, and I'm certainly the last person who has anything positive to say about Paypal... However, when it comes to shipping costs, I RECEIVE at the very least 100 international packages every year, most likely a lot more. 100 packages sent with First Class Mail International would cost me about $12 each, $1,200 total. The same 100 packages shipped PRIORITY MAIL, at a cost of about $24 each would result in $2,400 in total shipping costs. That's roughly $1,200 in additional shipping costs in a single year alone. I like to have a tracking number for really expensive items, but even with items of $100 value, I could afford to LOSE almost a dozen packages, or more than 10% (!!!!) of my incoming mail, and without ever filing for a refund, I would STILL be a couple of hundreds bucks ahead. Now my ACTUAL loss rate is WAY UNDER 1%. Postal services may be slow, but sooner or later, almost anything tends to show up again. For me, the math is pretty simple: Using Priority Mail all the way would cost me a four-digit amount extra every year, so instead, all I ask from the seller is a proof of shipment, and IN RETURN I agree to cover the risk of a possible loss. On the other hand, if I'm made to pay for Priority Mail, I will of course use any chance Paypal gives me to get my money back. (I currently have a Priority package that should have been shipped about six weeks ago, about $400 value, and the seller says he's lost the tracking number. Although I'm pretty optimistic that it'll show up eventually, I will of course file a claim with Paypal in this case.) Helmut Well, maybe whomever you got at PayPal was more charitable to you than the person I contacted, who told me in no uncertain terms that the customs label can not be used for either tracking or proof of shipment. This occurred two months ago and I was out about $300 in revenue. If you input an international customs # into the USPS website, all you get is a certification indicating that the package was presented to the Post Office in your origin city and no delivery information whatsoever. FRANC Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com <http://www.filmfan.com/> ___________________________________________________________________ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [email protected] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com <http://www.filmfan.com/> ___________________________________________________________________ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [email protected] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com <http://www.filmfan.com/> ___________________________________________________________________ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [email protected] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___________________________________________________________________ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [email protected] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___________________________________________________________________ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [email protected] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___________________________________________________________________ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [email protected] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content. Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com ___________________________________________________________________ How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List Send a message addressed to: [email protected] In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
