David
don't get me wrong, I wasn't downing your site. I'm going back to
read each when I have time & see if I can add any or correct any data for you
on Bill Gold, I have read material he is quoted in etc and I think
he's very much into self aggrandizement.
the posters don't work because he was the art director, they work
because the people working for him are great artists and seems to
think these guys were his "second stringers"
an artist is the person who does the art. I used to issue print
catalogs. I did about 20 of them and collectors seek out these
catalogs for their informational data & for pictures of the great art
I have sold. When I would do them, I would contract an artist to do
an illustration for the cover. I always gave them an idea of what I
wanted it to look like as a basic outline. I wouldn't consider that I
was th artist in any fashion, even though when I decide to sit down
and do something myself, I'm not too, though I do have some art
training and that certainly helps.
in my world, you're only an artist when you put pen to paper or brush to canvas
by the way, we have at least one former art director on this forum
(unless he has unsubbed). Richard Del Belso served for 20 years as a
poster art director & advertising man for either WB or MGM or one of
the biggies, I don't recall which.. I keep meaning to call him and
say hello.. Maybe now is the time. But I very much doubt he would
call Bill Gold the artist on any of those posters
Rich
At 03:15 PM 11/10/2013, you wrote:
Oh well, I guess future generations when doing their thesis on the
subject will come across this thread and perhaps wonder if this is
when the War of Semantics broke out between Art Dealers and Movie
Poster Collectors.
I look forward to seeing other people doing their own websites with
their own 'slant' on the art of movie poster artist/designer
;)
David
Richard Halegua Posters + Comic Art did previously state on
11/11/2013 8:01 AM:
David, I'm not denying Gold's contribution, just his description as
"the artist"
I'm sure that quite a few of the posters he's involved with in have
little input from him and could be as little as assigning the work
and placing the text. For instance, you can have no doubt that
anything Gold might have said to Frazetta about doing the painting
to the Gauntlet is restricted to "do you wanna do a poster for
Clint" as Fritz wouldn't even bother using someone else's sketch
layout as an image source, so Gold's total input on such an item is
very small and if you consider that he probably had typesetters in
his offices - he may not even have placed text, making his entire
contribution assigning the work. He would be in a similar situation
with Bob Peak, Birney Lettick, Richard Amsel and Roger Kastel.
Gold's contribution to Jaws may be as little as "Hey Roger, we
need an image of a shark attacking a girl" and likely has similar
small contributions to the final art of others used on these posters.
so art dealers like myself don't talk about Gold in the same manner
that poster collectors do.
There's a pretty good chance I'm the only guy on this list that has
sold paintings or other illustrations by Robert McGinnis, Frank
Frazetta and Bob Peak (among scores of others or course as I have
sold many 1000's of pieces of art) and in the art world, Bill Gold
is nobody. In the poster world his reputation is totally different
- as it should be - but when I finally get around to building a
website devoted to poster artists, or subsection to MoviePosterBid
possibly, Bill Gold will be categorized as a Poster Designer which
is his proper title in my book.
note: I do not have a copy of the Bill Gold book, largely because I
have as much interest in paying almost a thousand bucks for it as I
do burning my Blue Dahlia one sheet. When it finally comes out as a
$30 paperback, I'll jump at one. so because I don't have that book,
I don't have any list of posters where Bill Gold actually did do
the art. Did he just add the gun to Casablanca? Or did he actually
do the painting? If he did the painting, he would certainly deserve
credit as an artist for that piece (which would change his career
credit to Artist/Designer)
Rich
At 12:37 PM 11/10/2013, David wrote:
Rich
I have no argument with that fact he did not actually draw every
piece but at some point one must also accept that the art director
or the company owner (or whatever the position) is the person
responsible for the production of that piece and the 'artist' is
just a cog in the wheel - the buck has to stop somewhere.
Saatchi & Saatchi produce adverts for companies, no one really
believes Lord Saatchi or his brother Charles or even the current
CEO Kevin Robert actually came/come up with all the adverts, but
if the creative people behind those ads leave that company they
are welcome to lay claim that they worked on, designed,
conceptualised etc the advert.
Movie Poster art is rarely signed and although maybe collected for
its 'art' is in fact a commercial piece of work and I think it is
fair to say it falls under a similar ruling.
As I said previously, I have always welcomed emails/contact from
more knowledgeable collectors to set me on the path to
enlightenment with corrected information. My articles are mostly
my own amateur research and are also organic pieces, none are set
in stone. As has been alluded there is limited information out
there on the subject and I am definitely not saying they are the
definitive guide so certainly happy if they are developed,
expanded and added to for future collectors to read and hopefully
enjoy...sharing is caring. ;)
cheers
David
Richard Halegua Posters + Comic Art did previously state on
11/11/2013 7:13 AM:
David
I just looked at the link and I have some critique about Bill Gold
while Gold did do art early in his career, for the most part he
was the head of an advertising agency and didn't create all that much "art".
He is more properly described as an art director and poster
designer and the actual art on the vast majority of the posters
in his resume were done by other artists including such greats as
Bob Peak and Roger Kastel. So while Gold certasinly deserves a
reputation as being involved in the creation of many great
posters, it is my opinion that identifying Gold as the artist is
misleading, much the same as indicating that the World Without
End poster is by Reynold Brown, when the main body of the poster
is done by Albert Kallis
going farther afield, if you were to talk to dealers of
illustration art (like myself) about illustrators and poster
artists, Bill Gold doesn't even register on the radar when
talking about the posters in his resume
Rich
At 10:37 AM 11/10/2013, David wrote:
There is a little bit on a few artists and their work here:
http://www.vintagemovieposters.com.au/the-movie-poster-artists
Ari Kahan did previously state on 11/11/2013 3:47 AM:
While there are plenty of discussion groups for, and dealers in, movie
posters, I've been able to find almost nothing in the way of
resources for
those interested in obtaining, collecting and discussing the
original poster
art - that is, the handmade, one of a kind paintings by Struzan, Alvin,
Corben, Davis, Bass, Amsel, etc., which are typically combined with
typography and other elements to become the poster.
There's a terrific website at http://www.meansheets.com that
actually pays
attention to who created the art for the posters; there's
http://www.artinsights.com, which deals in some original John Alvin work,
but I've found little else.
Is it hiding? Does it not exist? Or am I just the world's
worst searcher?
Thanks for any pointers.
Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com
___________________________________________________________________
How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List
Send a message addressed to: [email protected]
In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L
The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com
___________________________________________________________________
How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List
Send a message addressed to: [email protected]
In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L
The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com
___________________________________________________________________
How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List
Send a message addressed to: [email protected]
In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L
The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
