Oiy! Where's my torrent of abuse????!!!! Theres nothing worse (when "it" is you) than the feeling of someone having chosen to rise above "it". ;.)
I'm quite happy to say that the world is created now in real time through a process of "dreaming" and as such was "then" as much as it is now. The dream however is ongoing and one of the static patterns of that dream is Darwinism. This discussion concerns the perameters of that static pattern, and its static quality as a descriptive tool of an observed process. To damage it in this context the alternatives ought also be be of high quality. These ones seemed leaky to me, but I realise now that my mind is a concrete prison. Where Dreamtime is "good", and Science is "true", clearly it is "better" to be "good" than to be "true", (by deliberate tautology) but where comparing two "truths", and using the evidence of "truth" to do so in your assault on the original "truth", I think it is "bad" to resort to arguments of "good". > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of gav > Sent: 06 September 2007 12:16 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [MD] Australian Aboriginal charlatans put final nail > intoNeo-Darwinian coffin. > > > jos, > > jos:> Gav, > > > > On the subject of DNA then how would you explain the > > similarities between primate and human DNA if they > > are not related? I'm not sure I understand how one > > can choose to cite evidence from mitochondrial DNA > > but ignore the evidence of full chromosomal > > analysis? > > I guess all life has pretty similar DNA - cells is > cells by and large. > > > > > There seem to remain any number of Darwinian > > compatible explanations for the data described > > below, the first that springs to mind being that it > > isn't just humans that can migrate. Migrations can > > span many thousands of generations, and with the > > shifting geography, ice ages etc a population of > > advanced primates could simply have lived in places > > that not no longer exist and became extinct leaving > > fossil records in the seabed. Pure conjecture of > > course, but seemingly slightly more likely than > > dreaming. > > mass monkey exodus? "exodus... movement of jah > monkeys.." > yeah maybe. > > i reckon 'dreaming' is more likely. thing is i reckon > there is a certain measure of truth or value that we > are all familiar with: duration. > > the best art endures; the other stuff doesn't. > likewise the best theories endure; the others don't. > likewise the best mythologies endure; the others > don't. > > the dreamtime has endured for tens, probably hundreds > of thousands of years.....just luck? i reckon its > value. > > this is why astrology and numerology are still here > despite the ridicule of the science: they are valuable > - they work. > > > > Further, I should point out mutation accumulations > > only demonstrate the age of a distinct species, > > which really means the time since the last mass > > extinction. > > the age of the species 'homo sapiens' was what i was > talking about. i disagree about the extinction bit- > mDNA would be traceable all the way back to the > species' origin. > > >The evolutionary path of simple > > proto-mammals into marsupials presumably occurred > > very long ago and was very different from the way > > that proto mammals evolved in other locations. We > > can speculate that outside of Australasia there have > > been a greater number of mid-scale mass extinction > > events. To say that marsupial mammals are older that > > non marsupial mammals ignores a potential common > > ancestor and the potential multiple generations of > > now extinct species. > > yeah true - tis very speculative. > > > > > You then relate biological timescales to geological > > ones, now even if I suspend disbelief over the > > assertion that one rock may be particularly older > > than another one, the orders of magnitude that > > separate the two timescales make any comparison > > statistically irrelevant. > >Its like saying that > > there's a real significant difference between 5 out > > of 100 billion years and 6 out of a hundred and one > > billion years. > > > > All the science bits dropped in are just like > > padding to lend a sense of ad hominem legitimacy to > > the assertions they're falsely clinging onto. No > > doubt all will leap now to crucify the evil dogmatic > > scientist, but even as a sieve this was bollocks. > > keep your mind open jos. just cos its speculation > doesn't mean it's bollox; just mean it ain't proved to > your satisfaction. > > mitochondrial DNA evidence suggesting that australia's > (or melanesia's back then) aboriginal people are far > more ancient than other races is significant i > believe. don't you? > > its also a question of metaphysical orientation - > which is why pirsig is handy. pirsig helps people get > their head around the *projected nature of reality*. > it is a much shorter step from here to the concept > 'dreaming' than from a objective materialistic > viewpoint. > > cheers > gav > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Behalf Of gav > > > Sent: 05 September 2007 23:49 > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Subject: [MD] Australian Aborigines put final nail > > into Neo-Darwinian > > > coffin. > > > > > > > > > hiya all, > > > > > > been reading about some interesting genetic > > research > > > into human origins. > > > > > > mitochondrial DNA from all the world's races was > > > sampled. this DNA is single strand and does not > > > recombine; that is it is passed on faithfully from > > > mother to child, excepting mutations - the > > > accumulation of which are the basis for estimating > > the > > > age of the race in question. > > > > > > because recombination (the mixture of male and > > female > > > DNA at fertilisation) does not occur with > > > mitochondrial DNA the accuracy of the dating > > method is > > > better than testing nuclear DNA. > > > > > > anyhoo....some really really interesting results. > > > turns out the youngest races on the earth are the > > > caucasian and negroid, at about 40 000 - 60 000 > > years > > > old. the next oldest are the (near-extinct) red > > and > > > oriental races at 100 000 - 120 000 years old. > > > the oldest race by far is the australian > > aboriginal > > > which, based on the very high amount of > > accumulated > > > mitochondrial DNA mutations, is roughly 400 000 > > years > > > old! > > > > > > some big implications. > > > Australia is, geologically speaking, the oldest > > > continent on Earth. It seems biologically speaking > > it > > > is also! I am not sure but i think similar testing > > on > > > marsupials has shown them to be of significantly > > older > > > origin than their placental mammalian cousins. > > > > > > So if you haven't already gone AHA! then let me > > spell > > > it out: WE DIDN'T DESCEND FROM PRIMATES. there > > have > > > never been primates in australia. Neo-Darwinian > > theory > > > has less credibility than creationism!! ha! > > > > > > The aboriginal peoples have always maintained that > > > they are the first people - that they came direct > > from > > > the dreamtime. This research lends massive weight > > to > > > their claims and also throws open the mystery of > > human > > > origins once more. > > > > > > i will do some digging at get some refs. the book > > i > > > read this in - voices of the first day - is over > > at a > > > friend's. > > > > > > cheers > > > gav > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > > > ______________________ > > > Sick of deleting your inbox? 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