Bo said: James, Poincare and Dewey did not quite reject SOM, they only sensed a deeper context. To reject it requires a notion of SOM as something emerging in time, and anything resembling ZAMM's "Greek part" they didn't provide.
dmb says: But Bo, I recently posted quotes from both James and Dewey on that exact point. I don't see how its possible to deny it. The idea comes up in nearly every reading and is discussed in nearly every class. Both of them do so by way of a critical examination of philosophies in history, attacking both traditional empiricism, rationalism and idealism. Are you seriously asserting that this is all worthless just because they didn't attack the Greeks? (Actually, they might have done so in works I haven't yet read.) Bo said: And please note: intellect isn't subjectivity, its the VALUE of the subject/object divide. dmb says: Intellect is the Value of SOM? I don't know what that means. Bo said: Pirsig saw the relationship with James, yet he also saw the MOQ something that added to James' thinking, thus the MOQ is not included in James philosophy, it's the other way round, and it's the new fundamental split - Dynamic/Static and the static levels - which is crucial. dmb says: I'll refer you to chapter 29 again. There Pirsig quotes James using the terms "static" and "dynamic" and it also explains that what the MOQ adds to James's doctrines is Quality. Pirsig is saying that pure experience isn't just dynamic, it is dynamic quality. And when we look at the things James was saying about his dynamic pure experience, the quality is very much implied so that Pirsig's addition is very congenial, not much of a leap at all. Bo said: Why Pirsig didn't admit this obvious thing is a mystery,... dmb says: Why Pirsig didn't admit this mysterious thing is obvious,... Bo said: I thought you understood my SOL idea and "intellect the same thing as a subjective self" is the very notion it rejects. dmb says: No, I don't understand anything. I never saw the problem you're apparently trying to solve and the solution itself is incomprehensible too. Sorry, but I just don't get it. _________________________________________________________________ Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks & Treats for You! http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
