Hi all
This is why Matt's points about worldviews and beliefs and values being up for grabs is spot on. DM ----- Original Message ----- From: "David M" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 1:29 AM Subject: Re: [MD] subject/object: pragmatism > Hi Bo/Matt/DMB > > What comes first for the MOQ is the DQ/SQ split. > Without this there could be either determinism or chaos > and instead we have both DQ & SQ. > > So with MOQ we have an evolving and open description of experience. > And so we live. But how do you live in an evolving and open life? > Well you learn the SQ as well as you can and see how you can live with it, > how some of it is good and some of the SQ is bad, > and make use of it. But what of DQ? Well as life is open and has many > possibilities, you have to choose. And if you are to choose you have to > decide what is of value. And we are back to the Socratic question of what > is the good life. There are many lives we could live and it might be a > good > idea > to try and live the one that will be most fulfilling. > > Seems to me 'what is the good' is the first question of phiolsophy. > We also need to understand the SQ best we can and know what is > possible and impossible (for now). Seems to me truth is about SQ > and is a secondary question after what do we value? And as we > evolve and expand what is possible, then, for us, truth changes > and is not a static 'thing' that can ever be found. > > David M > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 9:13 AM > Subject: Re: [MD] subject/object: pragmatism > > >> Matt, DMB possibly David M. >> >> On 19 Oct. Matt wrote to DMB: >> >>> Your stance looks to me like a pro-experience-talk position, and you >>> then paint me as being pro-language/anti-experience. (snip) >> >> Da foreign professor wil naw expond: >> >> All philosophy's quest is about finding THE truth. In moqspeak >> this search is an intellectual - or SOM - fallout, I know of no (in >> moqtalk) "social" culture that has this urge. No Muslim or Jew or >> Christian question God as existence's ground, it doesn't cross >> their minds, if they doubt it's about another God being stronger. >> >> What Pirsig finally saw was this context that intellect = search for >> objective truth and that it emerged with the Greeks. However, >> Pirsig lived in SOM-land and had to follow its rules and find a still >> deeper truth which he had found with Value. He saw a likeness in >> William James Reality=Experience thus Experience=Quality. >> >> Now, it's not difficult to point to other candidates to reality's most >> fundamental fundament and one such is Language. It's >> impossible to counter the assertion that all is language - all of it, >> every last bit (except that it is language too, but let that be) >> Another candidate is Consciousness (remember Scott Roberts?), >> it is unassailable and just as credible - as Quality - as reality's >> ground and some metaphysics could have been built on. >> >> But as I have pointed out several times a MOL or a MOC (I once >> made a list of the various MOXs that have been suggested up >> through the years) divided the D/S way with similar S levels >> wouldn't add anything. Whether Reality= Quality or >> Reality=Reality does not matter so much as the Dynamic/Static >> divide in contrast to the Subjective/Objective one. >> >>> With regards to radical empiricism, this isn't quite right. As I see >>> it, once we become radical empiricists, it _doesn't matter_ whether we >>> talk about what we experience or we talk about what we talk about. It >>> simply doesn't matter. >> >> Matt is right and if Rorty (I know that David M compares Hegel >> with Pirsig) and whoever had suggested the D/S split of their >> fundamentals and S-levels of X they would have transcended >> SOM, but Pirsig stands alone. Had he just seen his own >> enormous achievement. >> >> Bo >> >> >> >> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >> > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
