SA, Matt said: That's why I don't go for the distinction between intelligence and intellect as what divides Pirsig's levels. Intelligence is obviously the biologically linked thing that we share with the animals, but I think that's all there is. "Intellect" is a reification of a set of cultural innovations that humans were able to create in part through their creation of language. Language was just a tool we created to help us survive. So were all the other innovations that language made possible. Some of these innovations took on a life of their own, but how do we tell an evolutionary story about the creation of "intellect" if it isn't a set of cultural innovations? We haven't been able to do it for "mind" or "representations" yet, and that's partly why philosophers of a pragmatist stripe have been working so hard to retire them.
SA said: My point exactly. This is why I keep saying we could try to define intellect and any other level all day and night and we wouldn't be able to. If we completely thought we did, then we would be stuck. These levels are defining something more dynamic, creative, free, and open than we may think at this moment. This is how improvising works so well on the day to day events. We may try to organize and structure our lives into Confucian habits, but nature's wind will blow and the inspiration will flow. Matt: Your point, however, is not my point. We _can_ define intellect, and all the other levels, and we _should_ define intellect, and all the other levels. You've made the exact mistake I think we should avoid: you've conflated thinking with SOM. The idea of defining something "completely" is the SOMic mistake, the possibility that is an impossibility. Plato's Forms are this idea, where the concept hooked directly onto its essence in a perfect, immutable relationship. But thinking that we are ineluctably drawn to SOM simply by virtue of thinking, or using words, is the perfect inverse of SOM: monistic quietism--and an inverse is no better than the original. When we define concepts and terms, we aren't defining _completely_, we're trying to fashion an ad hoc tool for the moment. The zephyr wind will always blow, but Pirsig's point is that organizing and structuring is one of the things that we do to weather hurricanes. All we need to do is to stop writing our earthly messages into the stars above. Matt _________________________________________________________________ Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Café. Stop by today. http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_OctWLtagline Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
