> SA, Ian, Ron, Arlo,
SA said:Exactly my point. You
> even say here, "we aren't defining_completely_,".
> I've also said on other posts we do try to define
> these levels, and it is an on-going process. I'm not
> contradicting myself. I've been holding the same
> view. As I said above, "This is how improvising
> works so well on the day to day events." I'm in the
> middle of trying to define what is an 'emergency' at
> work. What we end up using and enforcing as an
> 'emergency' will probably differ than an emergency
> in Iraq. So, when I say we can't define intellect,
> this is a statement that will work around the world
> due to diversity and why I believe it holds well
> with democracy. This statement emphasizes the
> openness where creativity can sprout. When I say we
> can try to define intellect (and we do and will) and
> it is an on-going process....
Matt:As a point of
> logic, the only way you don't contradict yourself is
> if you switch definitions of "define," which allows
> you to say both "can" and "can't." As a point of
> etiquette, I wouldn't stress the non-contradictory
> nature of your statements if doing so requires you
> to be explicit about a concerted effort to employ
> such a switch. It's what they call
> sleight-of-hand.Which doesn't matter all that much,
> because I see that you're saying something similar.
> We can't define, in the sense of define that Plato
> thought we could do.
Yes, I'm talking about how we can't define
absolutes or how Plato thought we could define
absolutes. I know some will say or think, 'Well, we
can absolutely - not absolutely define." which this
latter only mixes up the meaning of what I'm trying to
get across.
[Matt]
> We can define, in the sense of
> define in which pragmatists suggest is all we need
> (and most people wander through their lives doing
> without worrying about philosophy).
Yes, we can define on 'emergency' at work (which
our meeting is in a few weeks), but this 'emergency'
probably will not fit in with what an emergency is in
Iraq.
SA said:I realize
> you've placed language in the same area as the moq's
> intellectual level. Yes, you've defined language as
> being what's on this level, but I would say a better
> understanding of all the languages would be to know
> all the diverse languages. Some languages do some
> 'things' for some cultures, that other languages of
> other cultures don't do. Yes, they are all
> languages, but each language is diverse enough (some
> more than others of course) to demonstrate a diverse
> realities. How does this fit into what your
> saying?
Matt:I'm not positive what you're saying
> here, but it doesn't sound adverse. I agree that
> each language does different things, which is why in
> English we pick up other phrases from other
> languages in toto, rather than translate. It is
> easier sometimes to just incorporate the foreign
> word or phrase into the mother tongue to use it the
> way the foreigners use it. Using the singular
> "language" has its pitfalls certainly, but it's
> easier when you are trying to talk about the
> commonality between all the diverse ones
ok
.SA said:By
> the way, I see language on the intellectual level,
> too. I see language as another kind of paint brush
> or musical instrument, poetry if you will. Language
> is a very creative intellectual tool.
Ian
> said:Agreed. But the point is it's a creative tool
> on the social level too ... so in itself ....
> language, symbol manipulation, communication ...
> does not help distinguish what is
> intellectual.Matt:Yeah, language is inherently
> social, which is why I tend to boot "social" and
> "intellectual" as level-monikers.
I see it as what Ian said. These levels are a
continuum. Inorganic-carbon-which somehow is now
organic-brain/mind/nervous system-which somehow is now
social-language, thought, consciousness-which somehow
is intellectual. All the levels have these emergent
points of reference where many levels can be happening
all in the same place.
SA
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