Matt: I'm in the middle of trying to define what is an 'emergency' at work. What we end up using and enforcing as an 'emergency' will probably differ than an emergency in Iraq.
Ron: Coincidentally I've been doing some observations along this line. An emergency is that which emerges from the system of social processes. If the emergency is of high enough urgency to be addressed, it is addressed by The appropriate emergency response systems set up in anticipation. Emergency response teams are typically set up to lay out a System onto a dynamic chaotic emergent situation. They layout a pattern in which to understand Effectively contain and process the event into The social system by qualified individuals Who are trained to recognize and respond to particular Qualities associated with these particular events. In our culture Emergency has become synonymous with urgency. Just some thoughts. -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Kundert Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 11:05 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MD] subject/object: pragmatism SA, Ian, Ron, Arlo,SA said:Exactly my point. You even say here, "we aren't defining_completely_,". I've also said on other posts we do try to define these levels, and it is an on-going process. I'm not contradicting myself. I've been holding the same view. As I said above, "This is how improvising works so well on the day to day events." I'm in the middle of trying to define what is an 'emergency' at work. What we end up using and enforcing as an 'emergency' will probably differ than an emergency in Iraq. So, when I say we can't define intellect, this is a statement that will work around the world due to diversity and why I believe it holds well with democracy. This statement emphasizes the openness where creativity can sprout. When I say we can try to define intellect (and we do and will) and it is an on-going process....Matt:As a point of logic, the only way you don't contradict yourself is if you switch definitions of "define," which allows you to say both "can" and "can't." As a point of etiquette, I wouldn't stress the non-contradictory nature of your statements if doing so requires you to be explicit about a concerted effort to employ such a switch. It's what they call sleight-of-hand.Which doesn't matter all that much, because I see that you're saying something similar. We can't define, in the sense of define that Plato thought we could do. We can define, in the sense of define in which pragmatists suggest is all we need (and most people wander through their lives doing without worrying about philosophy).SA said:I realize you've placed language in the same area as the moq's intellectual level. Yes, you've defined language as being what's on this level, but I would say a better understanding of all the languages would be to know all the diverse languages. Some languages do some 'things' for some cultures, that other languages of other cultures don't do. Yes, they are all languages, but each language is diverse enough (some more than others of course) to demonstrate a diverse realities. How does this fit into what your saying?Matt:I'm not positive what you're saying here, but it doesn't sound adverse. I agree that each language does different things, which is why in English we pick up other phrases from other languages in toto, rather than translate. It is easier sometimes to just incorporate the foreign word or phrase into the mother tongue to use it the way the foreigners use it. Using the singular "language" has its pitfalls certainly, but it's easier when you are trying to talk about the commonality between all the diverse ones.SA said:By the way, I see language on the intellectual level, too. I see language as another kind of paint brush or musical instrument, poetry if you will. Language is a very creative intellectual tool.Ian said:Agreed. But the point is it's a creative tool on the social level too ... so in itself .... language, symbol manipulation, communication ... does not help distinguish what is intellectual.Matt:Yeah, language is inherently social, which is why I tend to boot "social" and "intellectual" as level-monikers.Ron said:Perhaps intellectual is the individual manifestation of culture Or culture of the individual.Matt:"Culture of the individual" is far closer to what I like to think of as what happened in Greece. I think this culture is what you get with democracy (as you later referenced). But Ian is absolutely right that "collective v. individual" is far too simplistic to get at the difference between a putative social and putative intellectual level. (Though I think Ian and I may have different reasons for thinking so. For instance, though I think Ian's continuum between authority and critical thinking is an important one, I think it is at cross-purposes with my view of level-making. My reasons for rejecting the "collective v. individual" as the contrast that gives meaning to "individual" are pretty much those of Arlo, though my reasons for keeping the word around are because I'm emphazing the _culture_ bit. I should also add that there is very good reason to think there is a contrast between cultures in which everything is up for political grabs--a _culture_ that could under strain be called "collective"--and cultures in which there is an inviolable sphere of action, a culture that creates a public/private distinction. This latter distinction is what I think creates the culture of the individual, and the best wisdom on the subject is still found in Isaiah Berlin's "Two Concepts of Liberty".) On my account, the invention of politics was the invention of the individual, and there's nothing called "politics" without at least the idea of democracy (authoritarianisms do not allow politics by definition, since there's nothing political about rule by fiat).Matt _________________________________________________________________ Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Café. Stop by today. http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_OctWLtagline Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
