is a pencil active? DM
----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 3:06 AM Subject: Re: [MD] The education of Peter Corteen > Is a pencil 'self-aware'? > > On Nov 25, 2007 7:34 AM, Akshay Peshwe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> [quote] >> > Do you think that a cat can think? >> >> "To think" carries tons of SOM. What you ask is really "are cats >> self-aware"? Cats are certainly INTELLIGENT but is neither part >> of the social nor of the intellectual levels, particularly the latter >> where the "self-awareness" term - not belong - but was >> CREATED. >> >> [/quote] >> >> Consciousness (or self-awareness) is nothing but Dynamic Quality, hence >> it >> is the very essence of all "things" while at the same time existing >> beyond >> it. We are spiritual beings tied to a mortal framework of body and mind. >> >> Akshay >> >> >> On 24/11/2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > >> > Hi Peter >> > >> > On 23 Nov. you wrote: >> > >> > > on one hand your apparent unwavering confidence in your understanding >> > > of the MoQ is persuasive and makes me think I need to understand your >> > > point of view more; on the other hand in your posts your use of >> > > common >> > > words with your own specialised meaning, your poor phraseology, your >> > > sometimes patronising responses and that you frequently miss out >> > > conjunctions in your explanations and use unusual punctuation all do >> > > not help your cause. >> > >> > But English is not my first language. In the old days when there >> > were other Europeans around this site I used to find them easier >> > to understand than the "natives". But no sore feelings, I >> > appreciate your honesty. >> > >> > > It could be my weak brain that's the snag and if I were more familiar >> > > with ZAMM and LILA I would be able to decipher better what you mean; >> > > so I hope you don't take those comments too negatively, I say them in >> > > the hope that they can some how lead me to be able to understand you >> > > better. >> > >> > > I'm in the process of reading your SOLAQI update but in the meantime >> > > I'd like to ask you a couple of, for me, important questions: >> > >> > GOOD! >> > >> > > Do you think that a cat can think? >> > >> > "To think" carries tons of SOM. What you ask is really "are cats >> > self-aware"? Cats are certainly INTELLIGENT but is neither part >> > of the social nor of the intellectual levels, particularly the latter >> > where the "self-awareness" term - not belong - but was >> > CREATED. >> > >> > If you can stand some more on "intelligence"? It is a biological >> > pattern by way of the neural complexity called brain that makes >> > higher organisms able to store former experience (Read and >> > Write memory) and retrieve it - play around with it in imaginary >> > scenarios - what makes them able to learn from experience >> > included seeing other perform an act. At the bio.(cat) level this >> > does not include a self or language, particularly not the internal >> > kind we call "thinking". As the social level rose on top of biology it >> > adopted this pattern and because the biological pattern which >> > spawned "society" were Homo Sapiens, brain and intelligence >> > were enormous. If language was part of the social level from the >> > start or developed is a big question, the Neanderthals certainly >> > lived in family and tribal groups, but did not have language. >> > Anyway, with language came the silent form called "thinking", so >> > did names and a group identity that transcended the animal >> > range. Kingdoms and other "doms" arose. (this is a leap of tens >> > of thousands of years course) I find this passage from ZAMM >> > catching this reality so well. >> > >> > One must first get over the idea that the time span >> > between the last caveman and the first Greek >> > philosophers was short. The absence of any history for >> > this period sometimes gives this illusion. But before the >> > Greek philosophers arrived on the scene, for a period of >> > at least five times all our recorded history since the Greek >> > philosophers, there existed civilizations in an advanced >> > state of development. They had villages and cities, >> > vehicles, houses, marketplaces, bounded fields, >> > agricultural implements and domestic 381 animals, and >> > led a life quite as rich and varied as that in most rural >> > areas of the world today. And like people in those areas >> > today they saw no reason to write it all down, or if they >> > did, they wrote it on materials that have never been >> > found. Thus we know nothing about them. The ``Dark >> > Ages'' were merely the resumption of a natural way of life >> > that had been momentarily interrupted by the Greeks. >> > >> > This also shows that - to Phaedrus - "The Greeks" are the pivot >> > point that changed everything , in ZAMM they meant the coming >> > of SOM, in LILA it ought to have been the emergence of 4th. >> > level. But more on INTELLECT in another post. >> > >> > > Do you think quality can manifest itself in any way without the >> > > inorganic? >> > >> > The quick answer is "no", but it requires some explanation. At >> > first Pirsig put great emphasize on a QUALITY outside the MOQ >> > (that creates an infinite regress) He later "recanted" and said that >> > the Quality he speaks about in ZAMM is the DQ of the MOQ. In >> > that case the basic postulate is Reality=DQ/SQ (which isn't >> > different from the Reality=Quality in any other respect than >> > removing the Quality outside/ahead of the MOQ) thus Quality's >> > first manifestation was/is the inorganic level. >> > >> > Everything in my opinion of course, but I can't add this at the end >> > of each sentence. >> > >> > Bo >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Moq_Discuss mailing list >> > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> > Archives: >> > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >> > >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >> > > > > -- > "The only thing that separates us from the animals is...well, the truth is > nothing separates us from the animals." > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
