> Ron: > Hell, if your going to call SOM the 4th level you may as well call it > the 3rd too. If you're defining the western culture of today as > reality that is. (which one can technically justify in doing) But > you're really not gaining much understanding this way. [Bo] I'm not sure where Ron is? What ".. you may as well call it (SOM) the 3rd. too" means? But I will claim that an enormous understanding is gained by seeing the "western culture" as a result of the S/O distinction - the 4th. level's control of the 3rd can not be overrated. Besides that IS the understanding whole passages of LILA conveys, also that intellect has overdone its control and created social havoc.
[Ron:] Hello Bo, "SOM the 3rd too" means by making SOM the intellectual level You may as well make SOM the social level if one is Applying Pirsigs levels to strictly one culture, western. Clearly using the term SOM as a general term causes problems, Especially when one term is used to describe two differing levels. I think you are applying Pirsigs general evolutionary terms of levels to a specific Culture, western. I think it was Searle who stated that "the original sin of Metaphysics is to read language into the world". I'd also Add reading your own culture into the world also. The trap we as intellectuals are trying to free ourselves from is our own Cultural prejudices. To use a crude metaphor, MoQ is freeing SOM's intellectual head from It's social ass. MoQ renews the struggle to free intellectual from Social because SOM developed a narcissistic mirror effect. Intellectual concepts Influence social concepts and social concepts influence intellectual Concepts and on and on up its own ass. Am I making sense? s/o distinction or better yet, mere distinction, is an attribute of all living beings it is evolution itself. One can argue that SOM is one of many natural emergences of this attribute. Which when it began was also attempting to free itself from cultural prejudices. > The levels are already outside SOM, that's the whole point. > SOM as well as MOQ is an intellectual pattern, the difference is that > SOM is also cultural today. When SOM first emerged it transcended > Culture but then this intellectual pattern freed itself and became > Cultural pattern as well. The urge to want to see a 5th level arises > from This phenomena. SOM plays a double role in the fact that western > culture has become an intellectual culture. The intellectual level > struggling to Free itself from an Intellectual society. It certainly > presents a new twist and I feel is the center of the confusion. > But Bo may disagree. Had I just understood it ;-) Bo Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
