> > [IG] Or just plain "experience" ... direct
> involvement in something
> > experienced ?
[Peter]
> Plain experience starts with the inorganic; when we
> touch something
> molecules at the end of the finger are jiggled.
> Experience becomes vanilla
> flavoured via the biological substrates. I suggest
> some experience gets
> sufficiently processed at the organic level and
> never makes it to register
> as a symbol. Sorry if my language is imprecise, I
> don't have specialist
> knowledge of physiology, I'm just describing the way
> I see it now.
[SA currently]
Peter, you missing the point that Ian is trying
to outline for you. Maybe I can help. Pete, do you
experience this world the way you described your
experience above? Do you sense your "molecules at the
end of the finger jiggle"? "Via the biological
substrate"? This all seems intellectual, not the
actual experience.
> > [IG] By definition there is no such thing as
> "supernatural". That's
> > just a pejorative term used by people who find
> they can't explain all
> > natural things with S/O logic. If you are
> enlightened enough to
> > believe you can explain them, they are hardly
> supernatural.
[Peter]
> That's a neat side step Ian. So what experience have
> you had that you can't
> explain with words? Pirsig's Dynamic Quality? Tao?
> We can't define it but
> surely we can talk about it's effects and it's uses?
[SA currently]
Peter you seem to think your normal everyday
experience is supernatural. Normal everyday
experience (even surprises are normal in this context)
is the "experience" Ian is referring to that yes Peter
you can "surely... talk about its' effects and its'
uses", but then the normal everyday experience becomes
intellectual and I know for sure that nobody here can
say everything in words about one second of their
normal everyday experience. "A picture is worth a
thousand words" is a phrase that tries to point this
out.
> > [IG] Symbol manipulation is involved in
> rationalising the experience
> > and communicating it to people who ask in e-mails,
> but I think the
> > point is that experiencing them need not involve
> symbols.
[Peter]
> Agreed we can by an act of will momentarily stop
> associating, and that's a
> useful thing to do. Don't think, feel!
[SA currently]
Do you intellectualize all the time? Even when
you jog, or can you let it go every once in a while
let the wind blow without your needing to think what
the wind is and how it entered your biological ears,
touching upon their hairs, and vibrating the ear
drums, etc...
woods,
SA
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