[Bo]
Turn it around to better understand. The levels are results of
dynamic efforts to free existence from the strictures of the former
level, thus all patterns of the lower level exists inside the upper.
(as Pirsig says "all patterns are contained inside the intellectual
level) For example, USA is an intellect-dominated culture, but
when the "bells toll" (Sep.11 f.ex.) the social values of patriotism,
willingness to sacrifice, duty ...etc. emerges, but when the dust
settles the superior intellect returnes and take charge.
[Krimel]
Another of Pirsig's errors is his personification of the MoQ and especially
of the levels. Quality does not 'strive' Levels do not struggle. The MoQ
does not argue. This is bad enough as a manner of speaking but you do it so
often as to make one think you actually see it that way. Biological
organisms can struggle as can members of a society. But biology and
societies are inert they are not possessed of desire. They do not willingly
sacrifice or take charge.
> Steve:
> I think social patterns are the hardest thing to understand about the
> MOQ. As I see it, beliefs are intellectual. Habits to the extent they
> refer to habits of mind like dividing experience into categories of
> subjects and objects are patterns of thought and are intellectual as
> well.
[Bo]
How complicated is it possible to make such an elegant system
as the static levels? Language is (originally) a social pattern - the
ultimate one - but was adopted by intellect to serve its value. The
term "belief" in a social (religious) context indicates devotion to
God, but will in an intellectual context be used to express
devotion to democratic institutions.
[Krimel]
I think Steve is right to focus on 'patterns'. What is a pattern? What does
the term even mean? A set of relationships? What are relationships? These
are terms that are dead center in the MoQ and have not been adequately
treated.
Moq_Discuss mailing list
Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
Archives:
http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
Moq_Discuss mailing list
Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
Archives:
http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
