[Sharath]
> Many thanks for the clarification and quotations.
[SA currently]
Many thanks for responding back on this topic.
[SA asks].-
> I read the Kali link, and this was brought up on
> this forum before by Marsha. Kali does seem to be
> more closely associated with Lilith. I wonder about
> the maternal Kali who breasts feeds Shiva on the
> battlefield. Pirsig's Lila carried this doll around
> for some time, and Phaedrus buried the doll. I
> don't see a close association between the doll and
Shiva.
> Yet, dynamic quality devours all, as Kali does, but
> this aspect of dq seems to not be contained within
> the skin of Pirsig's Lila for I don't remember
Pirsig's
> Lila devouring or killing off... now that I think of
> it, it does seem she kills Phaedrus' thoughts in the
> quote I give above, just as Kali takes the souls of
> the battlefield dead away, hmmm, I'm thinking
> outloud here. Is Kali though, the aspect of Hindu
Lila that
> 'takes away the dead in the night'? Why does Kali
> and Shiva marry? Do you know?
> Sharath -
> I know in Tantrik practices the exorcising a "doll"
> is quiet common and is
> also used to perform vodoo magic similar to the
> witch-hunting. But I thought
> Pirsig used the symbolism to depict the importance
> of the burying ritual.
[SA currently]
"the burying ritual", as in resting what was, and
moving on? How does the doll fit into the story?
Anybody?
[Sharath quotes a link]
> "*Kali's* dangerous role in society outside the
moral order
> is increased by her
> association with criminals."
[SA currently]
Is this why Rigel in "Lila" didn't want to be
with Lila at first, until Phaedrus convinced Rigel
that Lila is quality? Lila saw the value with Rigel
too, and thus Rigel and Lila are together in the end
of the book - biological and society together working
'things' out...
[Sharath continues with the quote]
> "...By accepting the harsh truths that *Kali*
> represents, devotees are liberated
> from fear of them which people who deny or ignore
> them must suffer."
If we connect Kali as kin to Lila in Pirsig, then
ignoring Lila, as Rigel was trying to do, or ignoring
what might be and thus is thought as low
quality/criminals, sooner or later the criminal aspect
of society will boom/grow (as it currently is) and
society will be caught off guard as to what to do with
all these contrarians. I never knew the caseworker
side of dealing with troubled youth, the court side
(parole officer) of dealing with troubled youth, and
the youth themselves was such a need (youth placement
facilities get over crowded) and the experience of
working with these youth shows a troubled side of
society rarely noticed (for I've talked with many
people who didn't realize what goes on in placement
facilities and didn't realize that they are even
around). Also, this system that deals with the
troubled youth of this culture is broken. This swept
under the rug activity has the potential to really
blow up in our faces.
[Sharath]
> Also, do you also see any parallels with the arabian
> version of Lyla and
> Pirsig's Lila ?
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Layla_and_Majnun . I
> find it
> particularly interesting to note that in Turkey the
> phrase "To feel like
> Layla" is used to describe the feeling one gets when
> one is completely
> "out-of-it" and dazed, or, like Majnun, to be
> *crazily in love* and it kind
> of reminds me the effect Pirsig's Lila has on
> people.
[SA currently]
Not sure if there is a strong connection in
similar usages. Yet, the poet, the intellectual one
might say who loves Layla, but can't have her, would
be the intellect loving organic, but tries to crush
society (the will of Layla's parents). The poet
didn't go against Layla's parents and neither did
Layla for she married another, but Phaedrus was
planning on taking Lila south, which would have
usurped the relationship (no matter how troubled at
the time) between Rigel and Lila. Phaedrus then goes
on his way, helps the author write a book about Lila -
his virgin love whereas Rigel and Lila end up back
together. Some similarities it would seem.
blue,
SA
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