Heather, > Two internet sources depict how Lilith or Lila is >understood within the same Indo-European language, >yet, a seeming divergence took place somewhere and >Sanskrit depicts Lila in a more positive light and the >'western' version has Lila in a more negative light. >Here are the two links as follows:
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lilith >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lila I read them both and just like I suspected before my reading, the "Lila" > link never really associate or suggest any gender for "Lila" and infact is > not an actual person.I had this strong suspicion because I was born into > fairly orthodox Hindu Bhramin family and having lived 25yrs in a small > temple town in India, it is pretty common to hear references to Lila/Leela > in hindu mythology and no where did I hear something like this. At least for > me, Lila in the Hindu sense is associated with the cosmos and the life force > that exists on this planet. I only know of F Capra[Tao of Physics] who comes > out with a mesh of east-western viewpoint on cosmos/Universe and cites > examples from both eastern texts and western scientific books on quantum > physics to reach the same conclusion. In the Lilth link the text suggests > that Lilith is on par with the Hindu godess Kali. Now that makes much more > sense to me. I would recommend you read wiki pages on Kali and Durga too. > They are pretty acuarate and the pictures are fascinating. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kali http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durga > Eventhough Wiki has mentioned Pirsig alongside Capra and I believe Pirsig > is one of those philosophers trying to merge eastern mystics with western > thought, I feel his "use" of Lila is more western or arabic in nature than > anything eastern[ from Lila the concept] I've known. I don't know why he > chose the name Lila. I don't remember the chapter, but I definitely remember > reading somewhere on the lines that "Lila had biological quality" if not > anything else..which kind of suggests a depiction of a prostitute to me. > When I first read this book, I thought that Pirsig must've borrowed > Lila/Layla from Persian/Arabic mythology, where Lila - The name 'Layla' > means 'one who works by night'. source - > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Layla_and_Majnun. What do you all think ? > ps: I'm not a native speaker so please pardon my English. thanks, -Sharath On Dec 22, 2007 11:21 PM, Heather Perella <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Marsha, > > Marsha, I wonder about this depiction of females > of evil, too, and I found two depictions (a more > positive one and a more negative one) of Lila: one > 'western' (more negative) and one Sanskrit/Hindu (more > positive). Have you or anybody else come across this > before? I'll explain what I came across as follows: > > > Here is an interesting trace of a woman named > Lilith or Lila that goes way back to Sumer and > scholars note this mythological story must have even > deeper historical/prehistorical roots. I also find > Goethe wrote about her, the Grecro-Roman mythology, > Arabic mythology, etc... > Two internet sources depict how Lilith or Lila is > understood within the same Indo-European language, > yet, a seeming divergence took place somewhere and > Sanskrit depicts Lila in a more positive light and the > 'western' version has Lila in a more negative light. > Here are the two links as follows: > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lilith > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lila > > > Note, in the links above, Lilith is the 'western' > version. > Lila is the Sanskrit version. Within the Lilith > link above the Etymology of Lilith includes Lila. > > The rest of this post are describes some of what I > read so far, what lead me to search Lilith, and some > thoughts that stirred due to what has become > fascinatingly connective to the book Lila by Pirsig. > I was watching the History Channel on TV about > books of the bible that are not in the bible. On this > show, Lilith was described and the commentators also > mentioned that Lilith means Lila. > The bible has two creation stories in Genesis. > Rabbi's associate the first woman who was created by > G-d with man (as opposed to the second woman who was > created from Adam's rib) was a woman equal to man (see > quote below). This woman created from G-d just as > Adam was created from G-d is named Lilith. Her name > does not show up in the King James Version of the > bible until the book of Isaiah, but Rabbi's associate > Lilith with this first woman created before the second > woman named Eve. Keep in mind, this first woman was > equal and meant equality to Adam, until Adam wanted to > subdue her, she refused this dominating act of Adam, > and then in turn refused the garden of Eden and left. > After leaving the garden, this is when negative > connotations are associated with Lilith/Lila in the > 'western' versions. > So, I looked up Lilith and found a wikpedia > reference to her (see above). She is socially seen as > a prostitute corrupting society, biologically she > seduces young males at night (wet-dreams) and may kill > babies at night, she is also referred to as the night > or the wind, she leads one away from understanding, > and she is seen as a demon, thus, is in the mystical > world, too. This is one quote as follows from > wiki/Lilith: > > "However, what this association does not take > into account are additional descriptions of the > "Seductress" from Qumran that cannot be found > attributed to the "strange woman" of Proverbs; namely, > her horns and her wings: "a multitude of sins is in > her wings." The woman illustrated in Proverbs is > without question a prostitute, or at the very least, > the representation of one, and the sort of individual > with whom that text's community would have been > familiar. The "Seductress" of the Qumran text, > conversely, could not possibly have represented an > existent social threat given the constraints of this > particular ascetic community. Instead, the Qumran text > utilizes the imagery of Proverbs to explicate a much > broader, supernatural threat – the threat of the > demoness Lilith." > > > Notice, Lilith if not on the "community" level or > seen not as a "social threat", she turns up in those > communities as a "supernatural threat". > > > What's also interesting is that this 'western' > approach to Lila/Lilith is in a more negative light, > whereas the kin Indo-European language of these > 'western' versions known as Sanskrit and found in the > Hindu religion applies Lila in a more positive light. > > Here is another quote from wiki/Lilith where > Lilith/Lila is perceived more positively, but also > shows how this more positive light turns seemingly > negative as follows: > > > "After God created Adam, who was alone, He said, > 'It is not good for man to be alone.' He then created > a woman for Adam, from the earth, as He had created > Adam himself, and called her Lilith. Adam and Lilith > immediately began to fight. She said, 'I will not lie > below,' and he said, 'I will not lie beneath you, but > only on top. For you are fit only to be in the bottom > position, while I am to be the superior one.' Lilith > responded, 'We are equal to each other inasmuch as we > were both created from the earth.' But they would not > listen to one another. When Lilith saw this, she > pronounced the Ineffable Name and flew away into the > air." > > > Did anybody comes across this before? I know on > the "Lila" link given above, Pirsig is mentioned as > well as others such as Joseph Campbell, Heinrich > Zimmer, Fritjof Capra, and Alan Watts, to name some. > > > night woods, > SA > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > -- --Sharath http://www.linkedin.com/in/sharathkumar ============================== When I use a word it means just what I choose it to mean – neither more nor less. – Humpty Dumpty ============================== Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
