[Platt] If you are in Manhattan when an atomic bomb goes off, it's indeed "doomsday" for you and millions of other people.
[Arlo] Well, now you're just proving my point. In your eagerness to argue, you are avoiding straight out what I say and repeating things I've already agreed to and answered. But let me try again. You'd be hard-pressed to find a New Yorker who is unaware that an atomic detonation in NYC would result in their death and the death of tens of thousands. The issue is not whether this is a valid concern, but whether this fear is evoked by politicians to manipulate New Yorkers into believing that only them (Politician X or Party X) can save them from this happening. And, it is about proposing and discussing reasonable solutions to prevent this from happening, rather than the proposed "unless we enact MY policy, an atomic bomb will blow you to bits." [Platt] Agree. But it's legitimate to criticize a nominee for president who considers expressed threats from Islamic radicals empty rhetoric. [Arlo] Sure its legitimate, but when you start implying (or saying outright) that so-and-so politician wants to see you dead, or wants Americans to be killed, then you have crossed a line. [Platt] In some cases, only one thing will get the job done, like ending WW II in German sooner than otherwise by taking the bridge at Remagen. [Arlo] This is a good example. Had someone said, "in order to end this war in Germany, we have to take this bridge, if we do not take this bridge then America will be destroyed, and anyone against taking this bridge is a traitor who wants to see American soldiers dead", then this would be the same kind of low-quality, moronic dialogue we see all the time today. I am not aware of the exact strategics, but I would imagine that as helpful as taking the bridge was, had we not been able to do so, or perhaps focused our efforts elsewhere, our efforts may have been equally successful. And perhaps this was the BEST course of action, but again there is a difference between generals examining a strategy and coming up with a best solution and telling people that unless we do this one thing the war is lost and America will be destroyed. [Arlo previously] A third is in proposing that "YOU and ONLY YOU" want to prevent the event, e.g., "conservatives want the world to be polluted" or "liberals want to see American soldiers killed". [Platt] That there are differences between the desires of conservatives and liberals is undeniable. There will always be individual exceptions to general descriptions. [Arlo] My point is not there are exceptions to these general descriptions, but that these general descriptions are (not only) wrong, but evoked to cast fear and garner power. There may, for example, be differences in solutions offered (not only inter-party but intra-party), and we can argue at length about which policy will work best to achieve a desired outcome, but to suggest that the "other party" wants to see dead American soldiers or toxic lakes is a level of moronicity I would hope we would not see here. [Platt] Adding to the debt may indeed result in the demise of the America as we know it although the timing is unpredictable. [Arlo] Describe what you mean when you say "the demise of America"? Do you mean that our nation will geographically fall apart and be replaced by other, smaller nations? [Platt] As for your solving of social problems intellectually, consider Pirsig's warning about current S/O intellect's lack of a moral sense. [Arlo] Yes, yes. "Kill em all like germs". We know that's your favorite quote. And again I have never suggested that "intellect" alone will solve all our social ills. But, I think applying social force, as in the case of a foreign invasion, has to be done only after intellectual reasoning has led us to believing that to be the best course of action. Additionally, we can not be blind to our part in the fostering of that which we are trying to eradicate. We can not be blind to the Henry Ford-Nazi connection, nor to the historical foundations laid out following WWI that helped create the ability for the rampant patriotic and racist policies of the Reich. So, no, intellect alone won't solve all our potential problems, but neither will nationalistic blindness to our role in these events. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
