> Bo: > I haven't followed the "politics" thread too closely, but if Ron's > position > is that Hitler represented Social Value and thereby was "moral", he > (Ron) is right. What Chris has said about censorship I don't know, but > if he means that democracy (as part of the intellectual level) will repel > anti-democratic tendencies (for instance censor nazi-inspired > utterings) Chris is right too.
Yes, I was not speaking for censorship as such, I merely wanted to make it clear that it isn't black and white. > Chris correctly says that democracy defending democracy by limiting > freedom (censorship) is a paradox, but this is intellect limiting > society's values (freedoms) and that is intellect's very purpose. I can > however find real paradoxes, f.ex. people electing to give up > democracy (as in Algeria in the nineties) and/or Turkey's military > forces DEFENDING democracy. This is due to the Muslim world never > having properly entered the intellectual level (please, nothing about > intelligence!) thus importing intellectual patterns (democracy f.ex.) > from the West they become a sham. I agree A small side track: The Turkish Military is a thing that I have looked into a bit, and from a MOQ perspective it becomes quite understandable. The reason that the Turkish armed forces is the preservers of democracy in Turkey and immediately interviens any time a religious party or a undemocratic one comes to power, is because they are the defenders of Ataturk's legacy, so they see it, and they are taught this is their mission. Atatürk was of course himself a general, and so it is not so strange that it was the military that took this mission upon themselves. Now, to my point: When Ataturk proclaimed the Turkish Republic he, almost over night, transformed an ancient religiously dominated empire into a secular democracy. This was the intellectual level literally forcing itself upon the social. However, even though the ideas that the Turkish military took upon themselves to protect were ( quite dynamic) intellectual patterns at that time, they soon transformed into static social patterns. Here we can learn and see the utmost importance of the balance between DQ and SQ. Because even though the Turkish military still holds it as their mission to make sure the country isn't ruled by religious agenda and that the spirit of Ataturk is kept alive - it seems this is now blocking development as well. (this is all quite generalised, and of course my interpretation of the situation - though properly investigated) Regards Chris Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
