> [Arlo had asked] > If animals could respond to DQ in the past (DQ-animals), (1) what was the > nature of this ability? what could they do?, (2) was there ever an overlap, a > time when both DQ-animals and DQ-man walked the earth together? Or did > DQ-animals in North America "lose" their DQ-ness when DQ-man appears in > Africa? > (3) was there ever a time when NOTHING on the earth could respond to DQ? > Before > "man", was it always that something, somewhere could respond to DQ? During the > time of the dinosaurs, for example, what was DQ-enabled? T-rex? Lemurs? Ferns? > (4) Extending that, before the era of animals, is your proposal that "plants" > could respond to DQ? If not, what? If so, what is the nature of how those > plants could "act" that they can no longer do? (5) When "cats", to use one > example, could respond to DQ (DQ-cats), what could they do then that they can > no longer do now? Again, speculate. Did they have "free will" when they were > DQ-cats? And, importantly (6) why did DQ-animals lose their ability? If they > could respond to DQ, what made them stop? Is your assumption that humans could > one day "lose" the ability to respond to DQ? If not, why not? > > Take a crack at any of these. Speculate. Guess. I don't think it'll be easy, I > think the absurdity of the claim that "only man" responds to DQ is evident > here. > > [Arlo now] > Please try to answer, speculate, guess, expand upon, whatever, any of these > questions. > > [Platt] > If you think the claim is absurd, fine. I think Pirsig makes it clear that the > evolution of the physical and biological levels took place at the atomic and > molecular levels... > > [Arlo] > But you said "animals could at one time respond to DQ". That's not > "molecular".
How else could animals respond other than at the molecular level? Do you think a cat responds to DQ? If so, how would you know? What would a cat do to demonstrate such a response? > [Platt] > and states that now "only a living being" can respond to DQ... > > [Arlo] > The examples you cite are clearly responses to DQ contained in the social > and/or intellectual repertoire of responses. An atom or a molecule can't "hear > a great song for the first time". And this underscores my point. I think > Pirsig > was sloppy with this. Responding to DQ, a "sense of betterness", occurs at all > the MOQ's levels. However, each level contains constraints on how patterns can > respond. > > Pirsig would be much clearer had he said "only a living being can respond > socially to DQ, and only "man" can respond intellectually to DQ". That makes > perfect sense, and bypasses all the absurdities as evidenced by the questions > above (which you keep avoiding). Even a cursory knowledge of evolution would inform you that your questions are absurd. So there is no point in answering them. They are like asking, "Why is a crow?" Also I find it interesting that you purport to be able to read Pirsig's mind and correct him as to what he really should have said -- like a teacher correcting a student. Somehow such a reversal of roles isn't convincing, especially when you live out "man" when referring to the social level. > [Platt] > Again, if you think dice as well as rocks, ropes and roads respond to DQ, > fine. > Just don't be surprised at the laughter coming from the back row of your > class. > > [Arlo] > A die can respond to DQ only from within the inorganic repertoire of > responses. > It can't laugh, it can't cry or think or ponder or paint or talk or dream or > symbolically represent the experience. Then what can it do? Or a rock? Or a rope? Or a road? I look forward to believable answers on how such patterns respond to DQ. > As for laughter, one would hope those > who would laugh who take a crack at answering any of the questions above, only > then would they earn the right to laugh. Whatever that means. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
