> [Platt] > But if you are referring, as Pirsig does, to the issue of human free will vs. > determinism, then only humans have free will to the "extent one follows > Dynamic > Quality." (Lila, 12). > > [Arlo] > Before humans appeared, what responded to DQ? Animals? Amoebas? Was there ever > a time on this little planet that NOTHING responded to DQ? Say, before people > but after animals "lost" this ability? Or was there always SOMETHING around > that could respond to DQ? Let's go back the era of the dinosaurs, could THEY > respond to DQ? If not, what could? Was there nothing in existence at that time > that COULD respond to DQ? > > And, since you equate "free will" with "responding to DQ" (or claim Pirsig > does), did animals have "free will" when they were able to respond to DQ? When > that first carbon atom formed, did it do so of "free will"?
I follow Pirsig's description of evolution which describes DQ creating the world and leaving in its wake static patterns of value. As evolution proceeds, the previous static patterns become more and more rigid. Result: physical laws dominate and determine behavior at the inorganic level, the law of jungle (biological laws) dominate and largely determine behavior at the biological level, and so forth. Thus, atoms once were able to respond to DQ but no longer can. Similarly, animals could once but no longer can. In the both cases, the static forces governing behavior are too dominant. I know of no evidence that shows otherwise. > My contention is that all the patterns we "see" are simply high-probability > aggregations of "responses to DQ". Anytime anything happens because "it's > better" is an example of a response to DQ. Whether its a person jumping off a > hot stove or a cat jumping off a hot stove or an amoebe moving away from a > drop > of acid or a die that won't stand on it's edge, these are all examples of > constrained (and afforded) responses to DQ. I see these examples of responses to static values at the governing levels, not DQ. They confirm the MOQ claim that the world we see is a moral order made up of static patterns of value. Even such physical forces as the various forms of energy are static patterns -- measurable, repeatable, subject to scientific scrutiny. As is now known, these energies and matter are the same, i.e., all static patterns. (E=mc2) Only DQ, the force of evolution, is free. Glad we can disagree without being disagreeable. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
