Hi David, I think that a vice could be described as a trait or tendency wherein a person takes an otherwise harmless DQ experience and allows it to shift their state of mind from a higher SQ to a lower SQ, through repetition, desire, addiction. For example, here are the classic 7 vices/deadly sins:
Lust (what we've been talking about: excessive desire for sex) Gluttony (excessive desire for food) Greed (excessive desire for wealth) Sloth (excessive laziness) Wrath (excessive anger) Envy (excessive jealousy) Pride (excessive love of self) In each of these, a DQ experience could arise that includes one of these feelings, all of which are perfectly natural. It all depends on how the person reacts to this DQ experience, which will determine if we are changed to a better SQ or a worse SQ (C.S. Lewis wrote in Mere Christianity that everything we do shifts/shapes our soul in one way or another). So, to answer the original question of the thread, sex is not a vice it is merely a DQ experience. Desire for sex is an SQ state of mind which in excess would be a vice. Peace, State On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 12:49 PM, David M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Steve > > Well I guess it is a matter of self-harm or harming others. > Of course, suffering is something we have to learn to live > with some of the time. > > DM > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Hannon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 5:26 AM > Subject: Re: [MD] Is sex a vice or just a matter of change? > > >> Hi David, >> >> Yes, so then what is your definition of a vice? >> >> Peace, >> Steve >> >> On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 5:52 PM, David M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> wrote: >>> >>> Steve >>> >>> Is not getting stuck and addicted not falling away from DQ and >>> into SQ without DQ? Does this not dull desire and remove >>> the true satisfactions of DQ? >>> >>> DM >>> >>> >>>> [David M]: >>>> Does not desire cause us to change because it leaves us not the same? >>>> >>>> [Steve]: >>>> A desire can become a vice if we allow it to consume us, constantly >>>> occupying our minds, trying to satisfy it though never reaching a >>>> final state of satisfaction, allowing it to become an addiction. >>>> >>>> An addict with a particular desire I would say stays the same over >>>> time, or at least his state of mind stays the same. >>>> >>>> Desire itself is not bad, only in excess is it bad. I suppose i >>>> should have said lust is "excessive desire" instead of just "desire". >>>> >>>> Peace, >>>> Steve >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Another thought. Is sex a vice? What makes it so? >>>>>>>> What makes something vicious? Is it when we lose >>>>>>>> control? When order is overcome or missing? >>>>>>>> Is vice and viciousness all a matter or vicissitude? >>>>>>>> Of, in other words dynamic change? Such are our >>>>>>>> inherited and perhaps questionable values. >>>>>>>> Vice,vicissitude, vicious -all same word origin apparently. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> sex is a biological pattern of high value. it becomes a vice when it >>>>>>> transgresses higher value patterns >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> David M >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>>>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>>>>>> Archives: >>>>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>>>>>> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Start at the new Yahoo!7 for a better online experience. >>>>>>> www.yahoo7.com.au >>>>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>>>>> Archives: >>>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>>>>> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >>>>>>> >>>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>>>> Archives: >>>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>>>> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>>> Archives: >>>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>>> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >>>>> >>>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>>> Archives: >>>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>>> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >>>> >>> >>> Moq_Discuss mailing list >>> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >>> Archives: >>> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >>> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >>> >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >> > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
