Hi Steve
Generally no argument with that, although some experience
and knowledge of excess does have a value I might add, as does a banquet,
to mark something unusual and unique.
DM
Hi David,
I think that a vice could be described as a trait or tendency wherein
a person takes an otherwise harmless DQ experience and allows it to
shift their state of mind from a higher SQ to a lower SQ, through
repetition, desire, addiction. For example, here are the classic 7
vices/deadly sins:
Lust (what we've been talking about: excessive desire for sex)
Gluttony (excessive desire for food)
Greed (excessive desire for wealth)
Sloth (excessive laziness)
Wrath (excessive anger)
Envy (excessive jealousy)
Pride (excessive love of self)
In each of these, a DQ experience could arise that includes one of
these feelings, all of which are perfectly natural. It all depends on
how the person reacts to this DQ experience, which will determine if
we are changed to a better SQ or a worse SQ (C.S. Lewis wrote in Mere
Christianity that everything we do shifts/shapes our soul in one way
or another).
So, to answer the original question of the thread, sex is not a vice
it is merely a DQ experience. Desire for sex is an SQ state of mind
which in excess would be a vice.
Peace,
State
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 12:49 PM, David M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
Hi Steve
Well I guess it is a matter of self-harm or harming others.
Of course, suffering is something we have to learn to live
with some of the time.
DM
----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Hannon"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 5:26 AM
Subject: Re: [MD] Is sex a vice or just a matter of change?
Hi David,
Yes, so then what is your definition of a vice?
Peace,
Steve
On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 5:52 PM, David M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
Steve
Is not getting stuck and addicted not falling away from DQ and
into SQ without DQ? Does this not dull desire and remove
the true satisfactions of DQ?
DM
[David M]:
Does not desire cause us to change because it leaves us not the same?
[Steve]:
A desire can become a vice if we allow it to consume us, constantly
occupying our minds, trying to satisfy it though never reaching a
final state of satisfaction, allowing it to become an addiction.
An addict with a particular desire I would say stays the same over
time, or at least his state of mind stays the same.
Desire itself is not bad, only in excess is it bad. I suppose i
should have said lust is "excessive desire" instead of just "desire".
Peace,
Steve
Another thought. Is sex a vice? What makes it so?
What makes something vicious? Is it when we lose
control? When order is overcome or missing?
Is vice and viciousness all a matter or vicissitude?
Of, in other words dynamic change? Such are our
inherited and perhaps questionable values.
Vice,vicissitude, vicious -all same word origin apparently.
sex is a biological pattern of high value. it becomes a vice when
it
transgresses higher value patterns
David M
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