On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 9:54 AM, gav <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> comment below: > > > "Societies" is used figuratively here as a more > > colorful word meaning > > "groups." If I had known it would be taken > > literally as evidence that > > cells belong in the social level I would not have used it. > > Maybe in a > > future edition it can be struck out. One can also call ants > > and bees > > "social" insects, but for purposes of precision > > in the MOQ social patterns > > should be defined as human and subjective. Unlike cells > > and bees and ants > > they cannot be detected with an objective scientific > > instrument. For > > example there is no objective scientific instrument that > > can distinguish > > between a king and commoner, because the difference is > > social. (SODV Note > > 49) > > i don't quite buy it, with respect to bob and yourself and all. i think > bees and ants are examples of an overarching social principle that organises > individual units...if ya get my drift. whether or not the difference is in > dress or morphology. > aren't we talking of, at least, prototypic societies, with regard to bees > and ants? what of the collective consciousness of geese etc - birds that fly > in perfect formation - as one unit? what is going on there? doesn't that > suggest some sort of social/group mind? > > > You make an excellent case. Pirsig's definition of the MOQ social level has been a bone of contention here for many years, in fact, ever since this site began. How flocks of birds or schools of fish all manage to change position as one unit may suggest a collective consciousness or group mind, but how you would go about proving it scientifically is something Krimel or another would have to answer. Suffice it to say that questioning Pirisg's ideas is not something we should attempt to censor, as Arlo seems to suggest in another context. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
