Ham hi, those who think the spirit can pass through walls are trapped by the SOM mindset; there is no pure spirit without a physical component. Transcending the SOM view won't allow you to pass through walls either. SOM provides the tools to engineer. How far can SOM take us? with implants we may soon be able to simulate telepathy. What are the limitations of SOM in the alchemy of happiness?
-Peter 2008/7/29 Ham Priday <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Greetings, Peter [Gav mentioned] -- > > > SOM - mind and matter, it's more than a thinking convention; >> we have no choice but to act as if it's so - just try pretending >> the wall isn't there and try to walk through it, you can't. >> > > You make a valid point. For all this talk about MOQ "superseding" SOM > because it is a "more intellectual" perspective, what does it avail us if it > doesn't relate to the world we live in? Other than imagining ourselves > walking through walls, does the assertion that there are no subjects or > objects make us any wiser? Does the suggestion that the physical world is > illusory enable us to get along better with our fellow man, improve our > environment, or cure the ills of mankind? > > I could understand the value of such a construct if it helped to explain > the origin of the universe, the purpose of man's existence, or the ultimate > metaphysical reality. Instead, we are told that "the MOQ is an idea", not > SOM (which is the reality we participate in). Well, it's nice to have an > idea -- an ontology, if you will -- especially if that idea could resolve > some of the problems we confront as social entities. Man (as a practitioner > of SOM) has been putting his intellect to practical use for thousands of > years, acquiring knowledge about the universe, reshaping the world to > conform to his needs, civilizing society, establishing global communication, > preventing disease, and applying sophisticated new approaches to production, > economics, and government. Yet, according to Gav, this is not > "intellectual" enough. ... > > [Gav]: > >> To let go of SOM is to let go of the idea of dualism, of solipsism, >> of the possibility of pure objectivity. instead the subjective becomes >> partnered with the intersubjective, ... the intersubjective world - the >> previously 'objective' world - is the world of phenomenal consensus. >> >> SOM is the 'disensoulment' of the earth - of ourselves. It is the >> mechanisation of life and human and it is this that is the meaning of >> the robot/AI myths - NOT the production of truly intelligent >> autonomous mechanical beings, but the production of mechanical >> beings from truly intelligent autonomous ones!!!!!!!! >> > > I can't be sure whether Gav is advocating or condemning artifical > intellegence. But if producing mechanical beings is his idea of what we > should expect of a world enlightened by intellect, I'll stay with > old-fashioned dualism as long as I'm a participating subject in an objective > world. > > Thanks, Peter. You may not be spotted passing through a concrete wall, but > at least you have a head on your shoulders and your feet firmly planted on > the ground. > > Regards, > > Ham > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
